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Post by Deleted on Jun 13, 2008 20:54:34 GMT
Hey there, I am just thinking of starting training in WMA using a few self-help books (Guy windsor's among others) and am wondering about equipment. my current budget is set at around $150-$200 for training equipments, however I am unsure whether to get the foam practice swords or to get wooden wasters and a gambeson. At this point I don't know enough about sparring to know the difference and I am just wondering if this is enough equipment to get me on my way(and to keep me safe)? incidentally, I am just wondering if SBG's foam swords are realistically weighted/balanced?
Cheers BK
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Post by Deleted on Jun 14, 2008 2:33:32 GMT
Depending on what you want to do, either steel or plastic wasters are the go, a gambeson and a helmet. Are you sparring against others or just shadow drilling?
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Post by Deleted on Jun 14, 2008 17:20:05 GMT
Do you have someone to spar with?
I would get a pair of RSW's sword simulators.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 14, 2008 19:32:56 GMT
Gambesons aren't needed right at first. Even when you start sparring, it'll take time for you to really get used to the idea of committing your attacks. Most people when they spar, they hold back. Involuntarily, this holds back their technique because most of us have been raised to be polite and not hit others. What this means is, when you start sparring - be sure to do so at a level commensurate with your technique. If you're completely fresh to this stuff, it'll be awhile, or should be rather, before you start sparring with enough intensity to injure someone beyond a mere fleeting redness or soreness. For beginning slow sparring, especially if you're going padded weapons, all you need are some nice thick leather gloves(via your local hardware store, about $10 for a pair), and a fencing mask, which, depending on who you go through and which one you get, could cost you anywhere from $50 to $75 wouldn't be bad for a starter. Eventually, moving up to a higher quality mask is a good choice. If you choose to use wooden weapons, buying two different pairs of gloves and wearing them over one another does wonders. For keeping the knuckles safe. As for weapons, wooden wasters are some of the best beginner weapons i've come across, when done right(a la NewStirlingArms). They're pretty accurately sized, and weighted properly as well, and the balance of a good waster is really close to a good sword as well - though because of the nature of wood, each one is going to handle a bit differently even though they share the same dimensions. Overall, I don't like padded weapons - they react way different from steel because of how bulky they are(blades several inches thick or more... ). Wood suffers from the same to an extent, but a well made waster isn't nearly as bad(being only about a single inch thick and only slightly broader than a real sword would be in profile). Both boffers(padded swords) and wasters(wooden ones) suffer from 'bounce' in that they don't bind like real steel does. When you're doing slower drills, this isn't much a problem. When you get into more thorough german or italian technique, you'll want a steel sword. A good substitute to steel, if you can get ahold of them, is Swordcrafts aluminum wasters. They're built to have the same profile as a steel trainer and be weighted and handle the same. Because aluminum is less dense than steel, this is compensated for by making the blades very thick(as far as metal swords go) but this doesn't make a discernible difference in handling. The aluminum will react almost identically to steel, and because of the thickness, is safer also. The only downside? They're more expensive than wasters or boffers, and run around $150 bucks. You cannot in any circumstance use aluminum with any other kind of waster but aluminum. Steel wasters will destroy them, and wooden wasters get eaten by them. So if you plan on going to seminars or WMA camps or the like, the standard is wood or steel - can't go wrong with either as both are used pretty ubiquitously throughout the entire WMA world. Some groups have boffers, but most good teachers don't use them and don't recommend them - myself included. So if you buy boffers, look at buying wood down the road anyway if you want to branch out and get experience with other groups.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 14, 2008 21:31:43 GMT
I will starting with solo drilling, eventually I will move onto sparring. I think for now i will go for a wooden waster. Any tips on where to get them in my budget?(I need two sets of wasters and two sets of helms for about $300)
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Post by Deleted on Jun 15, 2008 4:47:26 GMT
If you look around (i.e. google the term 'fencing mask') you can find a decent mask for around $60 bucks. I can only (with good conscience) recommend www.newstirlingarms.com for wooden wasters. Best I've come across - though I have yet to handle the new purplehearts with their all steel pommels. NSA wasters are about $85. Two of those and you're at 170. Add $100 for the two helmets and you're at $270 + Shipping.
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Razor
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Post by Razor on Jun 15, 2008 5:28:24 GMT
I'll second that with the Newstirlingarms. Jim is an artist even though he doesn't say he is. He is an engineer.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 15, 2008 5:31:27 GMT
You could also buy fencing masks as well, they are a great option if you are not worried about the need for an actual helmet.
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Razor
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Post by Razor on Jun 15, 2008 7:25:55 GMT
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Post by Deleted on Jun 15, 2008 7:34:17 GMT
If you are going to be sparring at full speed and power against another then I have to suggest the 2001 FIE mask from the zenwarriorarmory that razor linked to.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 15, 2008 20:19:47 GMT
but will the others suffice with a glancing blow? really can't afford a pair of $150 masks right now.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 16, 2008 0:28:43 GMT
A $50 fencing mask is sufficient enough for everything short of letting someone hit you as hard as they can with a club. I'd recommend holding off on the expensive masks until much later in your training.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 16, 2008 0:55:44 GMT
Sorry let me clarify, if you are going into really hard core sparring sessions, the 2001 FIE is the top of the range and worth investing in if you absolutely need that kind of protection, I know that the Australian whipboxers here use them, then again when the tip of a whip is travelling at 1400 fps you would want the best. A $50 mask will be good enough for beginning sparring and will take glancing blows very well.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 16, 2008 3:28:17 GMT
ok, thanks for the clarification. does any one know how long a waster generally lasts?(the NSA ones specifcally)
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Post by Deleted on Jun 16, 2008 4:26:44 GMT
I have an NSA waster that I've used far more vigorously than he recommends (read: heavy pell work and the like). It's lasted 4 years of solid (ab)use.
On the other hand, I've had others crack earlier than 1 year - which he has graciously replaced for me. Overall - they're about as durable as wasters can get - but they're still wood. They WILL warp a bit eventually if you let them, and every so often it does them good to give 'em a light sanding and oiling.
Because they are made of wood, depending on how the tree was during the years it grew the specific wood for each waster, they end up varying somewhat in overall density, hardness, and strength. At their worst they're more than strong enough for sparring and partner drilling. At their best they'll take it all short of purposely batting them full force against a steel pole.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 16, 2008 18:05:01 GMT
Overall, I don't like padded weapons - they react way different from steel because of how bulky they are(blades several inches thick or more... ). Which padded weapons are you referring to, Adam? Home-made boffers maybe? Probably you haven't tried out one of Lance's sword simulators (RSW). My point is that if you have limited funds, and you are going to spar anyway, then you don't want to get a waster that you can't use for sparring. A good pair of padded sword simulators will stand in for the wasters. Then get a pair of fencing masks. Gambesons are not strictly necessary, unless you are sparring with steel blunts.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 16, 2008 19:43:44 GMT
I've briefly handled one of Lance Chan's boffers. They're as nice as boffers get - I'll give him that.
They're just not my cup of tea.
Sparring is perfectly acceptable with wasters. I've only ever really sparred with wasters(excepting occasional bouts with boffers). Once in the last 4 years of regular hardcore sparring have we had an injury - the tip of my pinky finger. And that was just because I wasn't wearing as thick gloves as I usually do(I use double thick gloves now, they work perfectly).
And no, we don't spar half speed - the split bone I received on my unprotected finger should be evidence of that.
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Post by swordboy bringer of chaos on Jun 16, 2008 19:48:11 GMT
hockey gloves ;D narrow palm thick outside padding ;D no more broken fingers ;D
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Post by Deleted on Jun 16, 2008 21:59:11 GMT
I tried hockey gloves once... they get in the way when you get up real close because of how bulky they are. If you want the best hand protection while still maintaining enough dexterity in your digits to manipulate weapons or adversaries, get these: www.copsplus.com/prodnum4895.php
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Post by Deleted on Jun 19, 2008 17:58:07 GMT
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