|
Post by wstalcup on Sept 25, 2017 18:14:13 GMT
Hi, Cold Steel "claims" that their $60 dollar "Chinese War Sword" machete outperforms many real swords that cost considerably more.. Has anyone seen a real test of this machete vs a top of the line sword of similar specs? Blade: 24" total length: 38" Weight: 2 lb 9 ounces
If the machete were actually much better (or even just on par) with cutting threw flesh, bone, leather, chain, armor, etc. then that means for the most part with real swords we are mostly just paying for "aesthetics"?
|
|
|
Post by randomnobody on Sept 25, 2017 18:29:27 GMT
Yeah, "outperforms" at what, exactly? Brush clearance? Bottle slicing?
Is this the one that looks like a stamped-out dadao approximation? I like the part where they refer to their "record-breaking Chinese War Sword" which its design is "based on" or something. Because it's the first of its kind, and we've all heard of all the records it's broken, like the time it...uh...well, then it...um...
I'm sure it's fine as a fancy machete or cheap beater sword, but I doubt it "outperforms" much of anything... Competes with, sure. Outperforms? Well...what are we comparing?
|
|
|
Post by wstalcup on Sept 25, 2017 18:39:08 GMT
comparing for "cutting threw flesh, bone, leather, chain, armor, etc"
|
|
|
Post by legacyofthesword on Sept 25, 2017 18:51:10 GMT
Good luck getting anything to cut through chain or decent armor. As far as the rest goes, I suppose it's possible that the CS Machete could "outperform" other, more expensive swords. I'm not exactly sure what swords they're refering to though - and "outperform" is a rather pretentious word to use. Like randomnobody said, it'll probably be just as good as more expensive sword. But it's kind of hard to compare swords in the first place, unless they're very different (say like a rapier and a cutlass). For instance, which cuts better: a katana, or a longsword? And the answer is: depends on the katana and the longsword. Stuff like sharpness and weight usually makes more of a difference in my experience (as opposed to blade shape), and katanas and longswords come in various weights and levels of sharpness. Trying to find out which is better at cutting or stabbing is rather silly in my opinion. Both swords will do what you need them to do. Both will easily cut through flesh and bone, sever limbs, and generally kill people (which is the purpose of a sword in the first place). The katana may have an edge (haha) in slicing, while the longsword might be better at thrusting. But if you need to pokes holes in or chop up some - er - thing, either sword will work fine.
|
|
harrybeck
Member
Enter your message here...
Posts: 999
|
Post by harrybeck on Sept 25, 2017 19:01:09 GMT
I wouldn't bet my life on a sheet metal blade if I had a choice.
|
|
|
Post by legacyofthesword on Sept 25, 2017 19:06:03 GMT
As far as why you'd pay more for a sword (as opposed to buying a cheap machete)... well, to a degree you're right: you do pay more for aesthetics. It's more about the amount of work that goes into the higher costing swords: the CS Machete is probably just stamped out, heat treated, and has a pair of scales riveted onto it. A longsword, on the other hand, at least needs to be ground out to achieve some kind of distal taper, also, the central ridge or fuller needs to be made. Then the various hilt pieces need to be made and assembled, and so on.
Now, why didn't everyone just make machetes in the old days, instead of laboring to create something that basically preformed the same? Well, in the first place, there way no way to stamp blade blanks out of a metal sheet, or quickly grind them out, or so on. The cheap and quick machete is only possible because of modern technology. The other factor is that machetes are usually pretty light compared to swords (as well as lacking various other traits swords have). After all, a machete is just a flat piece of metal sharpened on one edge. A sword will probably outperform a machete in every way, however, the difference isn't going to huge. If your life was on the line, then yeah, you'd notice the difference. It's sort of like comparing a Ferrari to a cheap Chevy or whatever. Do they both do the same thing? Yep. Will they both drive down the road? Yep. Will you notice a massive difference between driving the Chevy and driving the Ferrari? Not really. The Ferrari is a high performance machine that will indeed outperform the Chevy; however, you're unlikely to notice the difference in daily life.
|
|
|
Post by bebut on Sept 25, 2017 19:06:19 GMT
Look at the width of the blade. Machetes are about 1/8 inch and swords are more. Many of the survival or upgraded machetes are somewhere in between in thickness.
I just measured my home office Imacasa machete and it is right at 1/8 inch. A short sword I just ordered, a Windlass falcata, specs out at 3/16 and a long sword would probably be more.
Lotta one-armed folks in Central America who got on the wrong end of a machete fight, but a machete's stabbing potential is weak because of the flexibility.
|
|
|
Post by wstalcup on Sept 25, 2017 19:08:36 GMT
Well..I did see a video of a guy chopping threw a katana with a machete.. (I have no idea about the quality of the katana..) don't the Albion swords start off as sheet metal as well? according to a video I saw, it looks like that do. All I know about the cold steel machete is that is heat treated 1055 carbon steel.
|
|
|
Post by legacyofthesword on Sept 25, 2017 19:25:15 GMT
Well..I did see a video of a guy chopping threw a katana with a machete.. (I have no idea about the quality of the katana..) don't the Albion swords start off as sheet metal as well? according to a video I saw, it looks like that do. All I know about the cold steel machete is that is heat treated 1055 carbon steel. Most production swords probably start out as sheet metal. It's what happens to them afterwards that's important. Most machetes start out as sheet metal and stay sheet metal - aside from heat treating and sharpening, they are not ground to give them distal taper, nor do they have the balance and weight of a sword. The real question is, what do you want the sword to do? If you want it to fight a duel against an opponent armed with a sword and Medieval armor, go with the longsword (and pay the extra money). I f you just want to chop meat and water-filled bottles for cheap, go with the machete. I'd be very interested in seeing that video you mentioned.
|
|
|
Post by wstalcup on Sept 25, 2017 19:26:40 GMT
yes, I'm sure the typical machete forms can't thrust well compare that swords are built for that..
but cold steel also has a "gladius" machete for 50 bucks, and possibly be good for thrusting..
let me start over!!!
All I'm trying to figure out is that, since its a $50 dollar item.. everyone is saying that its impossible for it perform like its real sword counterpart? Performance is based on whatever the original sword is supposed to do... So in the case, of top of the line real gladius sword, the $50 dollar coldsteel can't even nearly compete with what a real gladius was supposed to do? ....OR... in actuality it can but cost hundreds of dollars less because of aesthetics? Thanks!
|
|
|
Post by bebut on Sept 25, 2017 19:29:27 GMT
Imacasa machetes are 1075 steel. There is always a trade off between the steel,QC, heat treating, edge geometry, and weight. A blade heat treated to be real hard could easily break instead of bending or dinging.
|
|
|
Post by wstalcup on Sept 25, 2017 19:36:30 GMT
Well..I did see a video of a guy chopping threw a katana with a machete.. (I have no idea about the quality of the katana..) don't the Albion swords start off as sheet metal as well? according to a video I saw, it looks like that do. All I know about the cold steel machete is that is heat treated 1055 carbon steel. Most production swords probably start out as sheet metal. It's what happens to them afterwards that's important. Most machetes start out as sheet metal and stay sheet metal - aside from heat treating and sharpening, they are not ground to give them distal taper, nor do they have the balance and weight of a sword. The real question is, what do you want the sword to do? If you want it to fight a duel against an opponent armed with a sword and Medieval armor, go with the longsword (and pay the extra money). I f you just want to chop meat and water-filled bottles for cheap, go with the machete. I'd be very interested in seeing that video you mentioned.
here's the vid
so main the reason a swords cost so much more is because of the tapering and balancing? If 2 armies were to face off, everything else being equal except 1 side has the cold steel gladius and the other side a real gladius with similar specs.. there should be a "discernible" outcome from the battle because the real gladiuses (gladiii?) are far superior due to tapering, balancing? Thanks!
|
|
|
Post by legacyofthesword on Sept 25, 2017 19:36:59 GMT
yes, I'm sure the typical machete forms can't thrust well compare that swords are built for that.. but cold steel also has a "gladius" machete for 50 bucks, and possibly be good for thrusting.. let me start over!!! All I'm trying to figure out is that, since its a $50 dollar item.. everyone is saying that its impossible for it perform like its real sword counterpart? Performance is based on whatever the original sword is supposed to do... So in the case, of top of the line real gladius sword, the $50 dollar coldsteel can't even nearly compete with what a real gladius was supposed to do? ....OR... in actuality it can but cost hundreds of dollars less because of aesthetics? Thanks! Let's compare the CS Gladius to the Albion Gladius - say the Augustus. www.kultofathena.com/product.asp?item=CS97GMS&name=Cold+Steel+Gladius+Machetewww.kultofathena.com/product.asp?item=ANR7&name=Albion+Augustus+GladiusStats wise, they're almost identical. Roughly the same length, weight, and point of balance. The only difference is that the Albion has a thicker blade and distal taper. This means it will preform better than the Cold Steel. But not by much. So, to answer your question: yes, a cheap machete from Cold Steel will probably preform as well as a much more expensive sword.
|
|
|
Post by howler on Sept 25, 2017 19:37:57 GMT
That CS Chinese war sword (basically a dadao, similar to Condors version), along with their CS cutlass machete and a few others are extremely effective weapons for the price, and not very dissimilar to their sword counterparts. There are so many variables involved that one must compare the sword version with the machete version on a case by case basis.
|
|
|
Post by legacyofthesword on Sept 25, 2017 19:44:12 GMT
Well... no actually. I don't believe that the taper makes the sword "far superior". I think in the situation you mention, all things being equal other than the swords, then yes, the side with the "real" gladii would win. But only due to the fact that all other variables are exactly the same between the two armies, and the taper of the blades gives the very very slightest advantage that tips the balance. All taper does is make the sword a little less likely to break and also gives it better balance. But as you can see from my comparison, the CS gladius and the Albion have the same balance, also, Cold Steel machetes are extremely tough, so in this case I wonder if the taper would offer any advantage at all.
|
|
|
Post by wstalcup on Sept 25, 2017 19:50:40 GMT
ok! so you are mostly paying for "aesthetics"! Which is fine, this is main reason why I bought swords than machetes! well, I guess it is a little depressing, that you need to pay hundreds more for just looks... LOL Thanks all!
|
|
|
Post by wstalcup on Sept 25, 2017 19:57:16 GMT
oh! so its possible the taper of the blades on real swords is an advantage? And that can't be done by any modern machines?
|
|
|
Post by howler on Sept 25, 2017 20:02:36 GMT
Really, the describing "machete" lies in the fact that, recently, so many things around the world are classified as a machete. My idea of a true machete is as a very thin bladed, inexpensive, mild steeled (for ease of sharpening and ability to deal with rock chips---as you swing at roots close to the ground), easy to produce and purchase, flexible, farming implement. There are many tools and weapons around the world that are much different due to their environments (Parang, Golok, Barong. etc...) which are alternately more knifelike and/or axe like, with thicker spines, less flexibility, higher (sometimes) carbon steel, etc... Add to this the offerings by CS and others of stamped out sword like objects (with the word "machete" tacked on to the end). Swords are defensive side arms designed with parameters balancing many needs in dealing with the need to mess up or keep from being messed up by another dude or dudes.
|
|
|
Post by legacyofthesword on Sept 25, 2017 20:03:04 GMT
The taper on the blades is an advantage, though a slight one. It can easily be done by modern machines, but nobody usually bothers to do it on machetes, because the extra effort and time spent don't give out a significant difference in performance from an untapered blade.
|
|
|
Post by howler on Sept 25, 2017 20:06:35 GMT
oh! so its possible the taper of the blades on real swords is an advantage? And that can't be done by any modern machines? Some blades don't have much (if any) taper but are still (for various reasons) well balanced. I think tapering increases expense, but it does generally improve handling characteristics.
|
|