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Post by cabbe17 on Jul 19, 2017 14:28:58 GMT
So I myself is an iaidoka and recently bought a shinken and since it's a shinken, rust will occur. I've spoken with my teacher and he said that uchiko powder and choji oil is a good way of cleaning the blade. Aswell to remove all kinds of stuff that can create rust. But when I checked up if uchiko was bad for the blade, some said that it will create scratches and will ruin the polish. But some others said that it's nothing wrong with uchiko powder. So is it actually bad for the blade or is it okay to use? I know that the uchiko powder is remains from polishing stones. But if I use it only once a month, will the blade be damaged? My shinken is a mirror polish and has a clear and beautiful hamon. Since I'm practicing iaido, I will be touching the blade often, and therefore there will be a bit more risk for rust. The uchiko powder I've bought is from ninecircles (more specified, the sword cleaning kit).
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Post by randomnobody on Jul 19, 2017 16:41:24 GMT
From what I remember reading, ages ago now, it depends on the uchiko.
A lot of what's bring sold as "uchiko powder" is just some mixture of talcum or similar stuff, not actual uchiko. This will do virtually nothing for your sword except maybe remove moisture. There are variants that do scratch.
Of course, real uchiko is an abrasive, and will also eventually mark your sword. It should be used sparingly, as such.
Really, the best thing you can do against rust is just wipe the blade with a clean, soft cloth every time you touch it (as you're able works) and keep a light coat of oil on it. I have swords that have never seen oil and have no rust after several years, and I have knives that rusted the first time I used them, before I could properly clean them off.
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pgandy
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Posts: 10,296
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Post by pgandy on Jul 19, 2017 16:58:56 GMT
You will find with swords, as with any other subject, there are enthusiasts, even so called experts that will have varying opinions and even contradictory opinions. One thing for sure that will scratch a blade and that is foreign material, perhaps minute in size that will get on your oiling cloth or in your oil over time without caution. Just laying your cloth down for a moment is cause for it to pick up these bodies. I keep my cloth in a closed container to which I return it whether I’ve finished or not.
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Post by wazikan on Jul 19, 2017 18:12:28 GMT
most if not all the uchi balls sold with production kats are crap. as mentioned above they mix them with talcum powder and other things. I get my uchi's at the sf tolken kai show. theres a lady from japan there that sells quality merch.
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Post by Verity on Jul 19, 2017 23:16:45 GMT
High quality Uchiko, no. It's fine when it is actually the pulverized uchigamori stone powder and properly refined.
That said it IS an abrasive so microscopically it is polishing the tamahagane. Conservationists take issue with that since the idea is to preserve.
The bigger problems and why nihonto folk have mostly moved away from it in favor of microfiber cloth is that:
1.) most Uchiko sold is not high quality and properly refined. Some is from reputable makers
And even more importantly
2.) user error is rampant and people bash the ball creating issues of scuffs, or they keep the Uchiko too long amd the ball gets dirty and enhances the likelihood of above abrasions
You need to be properly trained to use Uchiko and have high quality so the microfiber is less error prone and does the same thing
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Post by cabbe17 on Jul 19, 2017 23:32:12 GMT
From what I remember reading, ages ago now, it depends on the uchiko. A lot of what's bring sold as "uchiko powder" is just some mixture of talcum or similar stuff, not actual uchiko. This will do virtually nothing for your sword except maybe remove moisture. There are variants that do scratch. Of course, real uchiko is an abrasive, and will also eventually mark your sword. It should be used sparingly, as such. Really, the best thing you can do against rust is just wipe the blade with a clean, soft cloth every time you touch it (as you're able works) and keep a light coat of oil on it. I have swords that have never seen oil and have no rust after several years, and I have knives that rusted the first time I used them, before I could properly clean them off. Okay, thanks for the response.
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Post by cabbe17 on Jul 19, 2017 23:35:06 GMT
most if not all the uchi balls sold with production kats are crap. as mentioned above they mix them with talcum powder and other things. I get my uchi's at the sf tolken kai show. theres a lady from japan there that sells quality merch. The one I bought was not sold "with" my shinken. I bought it from ninecircles, separately. From my experience atleast... Ninecircles is quite a good company when it comes to iaido.
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Post by cabbe17 on Jul 19, 2017 23:42:08 GMT
High quality Uchiko, no. It's fine when it is actually the pulverized uchigamori stone powder and properly refined. That said it IS an abrasive so microscopically it is polishing the tamahagane. Conservationists take issue with that since the idea is to preserve. The bigger problems and why nihonto folk have mostly moved away from it in favor of microfiber cloth is that: 1.) most Uchiko sold is not high quality and properly refined. Some is from reputable makers And even more importantly 2.) user error is rampant and people bash the ball creating issues of scuffs, or they keep the Uchiko too long amd the ball gets dirty and enhances the likelihood of above abrasions You need to be properly trained to use Uchiko and have high quality so the microfiber is less error prone and does the same thing But if I buy real high quality uchiko powder, and also get help from my teacher, then it shouldn't be a problem? My teacher has a nihonto (can't see too much wear on his blade) and probably knows how to use uchiko powder properly, because of his own teacher teaching him. (Alot of teach, lol)
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Post by stopped1 on Jul 20, 2017 0:34:12 GMT
Uchiko is harder than steel, if you rub it on and off enough, eventually it will eat the steel. You will possibly dull the edge before you harm the finish and you will wonder why it is getting harder to cut. Sensible use of Uchiko will likely not affect it much over a lifetime. The problem some of them are hundreds of years old. Just imagine rubbinh something harder than steel 6 times a year for 400 years. I suspect that's how some older sword having rounded shinogi, despite having no other signs of abuse... if I have a smith building me one today, japanese or not, no problem, it is MY sword and I won't hurt it in my life time. But I try not to do that to my koto and shinto swords. Just oil it and keep it from rusting.
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Post by Verity on Jul 20, 2017 0:48:09 GMT
High quality Uchiko, no. It's fine when it is actually the pulverized uchigamori stone powder and properly refined. That said it IS an abrasive so microscopically it is polishing the tamahagane. Conservationists take issue with that since the idea is to preserve. The bigger problems and why nihonto folk have mostly moved away from it in favor of microfiber cloth is that: 1.) most Uchiko sold is not high quality and properly refined. Some is from reputable makers And even more importantly 2.) user error is rampant and people bash the ball creating issues of scuffs, or they keep the Uchiko too long amd the ball gets dirty and enhances the likelihood of above abrasions You need to be properly trained to use Uchiko and have high quality so the microfiber is less error prone and does the same thing But if I buy real high quality uchiko powder, and also get help from my teacher, then it shouldn't be a problem? My teacher has a nihonto (can't see too much wear on his blade) and probably knows how to use uchiko powder properly, because of his own teacher teaching him. (Alot of teach, lol) If this is the case and you both purchase high quality Uchiko and have proper technique in its application, you are unlikely to cause significant harm, however you ARE polishing the surface and eventually it will dull the features. Nihonto enthusiasts who previously used Uchiko are mostly all converted to MicroDear microfiber cloths (myself included).
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Post by vermithrax on Jul 20, 2017 0:50:17 GMT
High quality Uchiko, no. It's fine when it is actually the pulverized uchigamori stone powder and properly refined. That said it IS an abrasive so microscopically it is polishing the tamahagane. Conservationists take issue with that since the idea is to preserve. The bigger problems and why nihonto folk have mostly moved away from it in favor of microfiber cloth is that: 1.) most Uchiko sold is not high quality and properly refined. Some is from reputable makers And even more importantly 2.) user error is rampant and people bash the ball creating issues of scuffs, or they keep the Uchiko too long amd the ball gets dirty and enhances the likelihood of above abrasions You need to be properly trained to use Uchiko and have high quality so the microfiber is less error prone and does the same thing Verity nails it and I would add: - Cheaper stuff scuffs and leaves traces - It's all over your shirasaya or saya as well Skip it.
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Post by cabbe17 on Jul 20, 2017 11:13:39 GMT
Aye, thanks alot mates!
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Post by zabazagobo on Jul 20, 2017 23:09:08 GMT
Like many have said, it depends on several factors including the quality of the uchiko, how aggressively you strike the ball and how much powder is used. I find that as long as you're delicate in approach with a decent quality powder (decent being something like Hanwei, obviously not 'great', but serviceable) and make use of choji oil and a smooth cloth, things turn out well. Get too aggressive or generous in its use, and the polish won't be very happy with you.
Microfiber cloths are a good option, but I have always found uchiko to work best for cleaning up after any kind of cutting. Unless you don't mind just scrubbing the blade religiously with water for some time.
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Post by cabbe17 on Jul 21, 2017 13:15:08 GMT
Like many have said, it depends on several factors including the quality of the uchiko, how aggressively you strike the ball and how much powder is used. I find that as long as you're delicate in approach with a decent quality powder (decent being something like Hanwei, obviously not 'great', but serviceable) and make use of choji oil and a smooth cloth, things turn out well. Get too aggressive or generous in its use, and the polish won't be very happy with you. Microfiber cloths are a good option, but I have always found uchiko to work best for cleaning up after any kind of cutting. Unless you don't mind just scrubbing the blade religiously with water for some time. Alright mate
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Post by wazikan on Jul 21, 2017 17:53:29 GMT
but over the years I personally use baby diapers to wipe off blades during cutting and if I get some bad stuff on the blade I use noxxon.
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Post by cabbe17 on Jul 23, 2017 18:51:00 GMT
but over the years I personally use baby diapers to wipe off blades during cutting and if I get some bad stuff on the blade I use noxxon. Okay
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Post by nddave on Jul 24, 2017 9:38:21 GMT
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Post by treeslicer on Jul 25, 2017 2:40:21 GMT
Good post. I use 3 in 1 oil with eugenol added for clove aroma, make my own uchiko by powdering uchigomori (usually hato, sometimes jito, sometimes a mix) on an Iyoto nagura stone, and use blue disposable shop towels as well as cosmetic cotton squares. Occasionally, I'll use an old, clean, T-shirt with the oil and powder, just like doing a spit-shine on shoes. I also use the chopsticks for mekugi, trimming them with a razor saw. Never a problem.
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