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Post by Deleted on May 12, 2017 7:04:00 GMT
Never been a maker but probably can consider myself one of the "old guard" (not banging my own drum.) I just get to the point with groups where I feel my input is no longer valued and so I visit less and less until I don't really come around at all. Not sure if removing myself from groups is any great loss to the group but that is my reasoning behind it. I still check here from time to time to see what smiths I have always respected or have bought from have been making but I rarely interact or say anything as I was getting the feeling for a while there that I was "killing" threads as they'd have great discussion and then I'd offer my input or knowledge and they'd go dead. A few people were also "kind" enough to point out some things about the way I post and that made me even less inclined to interact. These days with all the stuff I am dealing with in my personal life and people I once respected pointing out certain "truths" to me about the way I interact I pretty much keep my opinions and my knowledge (what is left of it) to myself. This saddens me Bloodwraith. You've been a part of this forum a long time. Some folks are always going to be sensitive to a perceived tone or words used in a post. You can't make everyone happy, but that isn't a reason to mute yourself and rob the world of your valuable contributions. I know there are some prickly folk, but that doesn't make their contributions or yours any less valuable IMO. Unless a mod is slapping you on the wrist, don't fret over what people think. I for one would value your input on many threads. Makes me sad some of our old guard feel like they have little to contribute, when more often than not, they've the most. Agreed. I am certain that my achievements on this forum are recognition of the fact that I am a waffler, trying to kill my self with pommels and that's it. I mostly just post and forget, since my words don't usually help any one too much. Doesn't mean I quit. I learn everyday, and just because I bring something new and unusual to the forum (my old habit of getting into trouble and constant praise of TMA, yeah I know I love it a little too much) doesn't mean it's useless. Every advice is useful, and just flaming on someone because they have a wrong opinion just makes that opinion stronger. Like my Kruu said," Talk soft, behave nice and be mannerable. Forget what anyone says. Words don't stick. Blood does." (Sorry, had to do it 😁)
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Ifrit
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More edgy than a double edge sword
Posts: 3,284
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Post by Ifrit on May 12, 2017 7:42:57 GMT
Never been a maker but probably can consider myself one of the "old guard" (not banging my own drum.) I just get to the point with groups where I feel my input is no longer valued and so I visit less and less until I don't really come around at all. Not sure if removing myself from groups is any great loss to the group but that is my reasoning behind it. I still check here from time to time to see what smiths I have always respected or have bought from have been making but I rarely interact or say anything as I was getting the feeling for a while there that I was "killing" threads as they'd have great discussion and then I'd offer my input or knowledge and they'd go dead. A few people were also "kind" enough to point out some things about the way I post and that made me even less inclined to interact. These days with all the stuff I am dealing with in my personal life and people I once respected pointing out certain "truths" to me about the way I interact I pretty much keep my opinions and my knowledge (what is left of it) to myself. Same here man. I'm a massive thread killer lol. Not saying you are, but I see the same patterns in my own forum experience as well. I been posting less and less, but then sometimes I just feel obnoxious and spam my opinion everywhere. It's not worth anything here cause it isn't HEMA, or isn't really backed by anything, but I kinda just like to do it anyway. Been getting less and less interested in this forum though. I just stay to see what people make and to see the classifieds. Plus I like customizing swords, so whenever I have the money and tools to do so, I will post it But yea, unrelated stuff I just said aside, I feel ya. I feel like a thread murderer. Sometimes I wonder if it's cause my profile pics or something weird. I never really got criticism on it before. Or maybe I just seem cringey and like a keyboard warrior or something.
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Post by demonskull on May 12, 2017 11:55:25 GMT
My I make a suggestion to those makers who use Facebook but prefer the Forum experience ? Try working this site into your Facebook posts. A simple nod to a particular thread or say harmonics are explained a little more thoroughly in some older posts on SBG. This will get those interested to visit and possibly become new members. A reference to our Classifieds being a free resource would work also.
I too prefer the ease of finding something and the conversation here.
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Post by bloodwraith on May 12, 2017 11:59:41 GMT
Verity: I appreciate that, thank you. I didn't say what I did as a pity party or trying to get sympathy, that was just my opinion. I've been on this forum for must be 11 or more years now? I've seen some really great people come and go and while that is the nature of the forum, it is still disheartening to see people you know only as their forum persona disappear completely and not know what happened to them. Like Dan Davis, guy was a font of information about smithing and made some of the most interesting things I'd seen on this forum and haven't seen anyone reproduce his results. Maybe my memory is crap and his stuff wasn't as good as I remember but he was still valuable and he is just one of many. I will always remember his knife with the triple hamon without using clay.
I've seen a lot of the old guard pop up in a certain facebook group. Also to be honest after 11 years or so and being a member since its infancy the arguments about things get really tiring. I know that new people haven't experienced these arguments before but I've seen them at least a thousand times and my opinion and experience at the point when the argument first surfaced have not changed and by stating it I'm not going to impact anyone's understanding of the issue. I joined the forum to learn when I was new and one day be able to help people just starting out on their journey but it hasn't really turned out that way.
I don't really let other people's opinions get to me as such but I am very aware of my shortcomings with my ability to interpret people's "tone" in written text and people actually pointing it out to me makes me hesitant and second guess myself a little. Words stick, even if we don't want to admit it to ourselves, regardless of how much we want to convince ourselves that words are just mouth noises, in one way or another they stay with us, especially when we already have diagnosed inadequacy issues.
This has been deep and meaningful with me, your host. Tune in tomorrow when we talk about whether swords can cut iron :D
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Post by kasim18 on May 12, 2017 15:43:14 GMT
Honestly, FB is just so much more user friendly. there is a search bar in groups, things get seen sooner, and it's set up better. I think forums might just be dying out in general, they were fine a decade ago, but even a nice one like this is just so low-tech next to modern FB. AllSwords has become my go-to, I basically come here for the classifieds. forums are just too cluttered for me now that FB is around to compare it to, having it all on one screen vs having to click around to different sections, forums that you need to click on every thread link make it harder imho to see everything.
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Post by Lancelot Chan on May 12, 2017 16:48:30 GMT
Well, I'm still here. I'm pretty much a thread killer too so I shared that feeling.
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Post by Lukas MG (chenessfan) on May 12, 2017 17:42:54 GMT
I still post my projects on SBG and will continue to do so but I do post more (as in more in-progress shots, etc) on fb. It's simply so much more convenient to directly upload pics there for example. And what's crucial: fb is one of the most important ways of attracting potential buyers, moreso than forums I feel. Things can be shared and reach way more people, information spreads very quickly.
That being said, forums are much better for conserving knowledge. Dedicated forums for makers are for that reason still quite popular.
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Post by Faldarin on May 12, 2017 17:54:16 GMT
I still post my projects on SBG and will continue to do so but I do post more (as in more in-progress shots, etc) on fb. It's simply so much more convenient to directly upload pics there for example. And what's crucial: fb is one of the most important ways of attracting potential buyers, moreso than forums I feel. Things can be shared and reach way more people, information spreads very quickly. That being said, forums are much better for conserving knowledge. Dedicated forums for makers are for that reason still quite popular. ^ This. Sorry to use such a forum/post convention... but LukasMG just hit the nail on the head. Facebook is almost perfect for a maker of almost any stripes looking to sell a product, especially one with such a visual focus. We may or may not like it, but that's where the money is right now. I'll peek at the facebook profiles of vendors, as long as they're visible without signing up for my own account... because Mr. Trim and Tinker in particular only seem to ever post there. (I can't blame them at all.) Echoing the last point, the forums are important for gaining and preserving knowledge... imo for makers, enthusiasts, beginners, or anyone!
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on May 12, 2017 18:31:21 GMT
Gonna hate to type this:
Why not make a SBG FB group? Is it possible to add forum links in that? To add forum discussion feasibility with FB accessibility and advertisement capability so this forum can flourish?
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Post by L Driggers (fallen) on May 12, 2017 19:37:35 GMT
SBG has a facebook page it is pretty dead too.
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Post by kirito on May 12, 2017 20:12:22 GMT
Honestly, FB is just so much more user friendly. there is a search bar in groups, things get seen sooner, and it's set up better. I think forums might just be dying out in general, they were fine a decade ago, but even a nice one like this is just so low-tech next to modern FB. AllSwords has become my go-to, I basically come here for the classifieds. forums are just too cluttered for me now that FB is around to compare it to, having it all on one screen vs having to click around to different sections, forums that you need to click on every thread link make it harder imho to see everything. I just signed up here, but I was specifically looking for a forum on swords instead of Facebook groups! It's much easier to browse older topics to read information (I like the subforum topic division a lot more than trying to think of keywords and searching within Facebook groups). Also for long discussions, multiple pages just reads better than clicking "see more comments" on Facebook. And when you don't look on Facebook every day, you miss a lot of posts (also because Facebook filters your feed). Though for selling things, Facebook is also a useful medium. Just not that much for information, I think
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Post by Lonely Wolf Forge on May 13, 2017 3:57:45 GMT
as a maker ive found it almost pointless to post here if im gonna be honest. nobody comments. Nobody buys anything. 300+ views on a post and 1-2 comments. I make a post on facebook and it blows up with views and comments, i get customers blowing up my inbox from allover the world and im able to keep busy enough that as i finish one commission i have 2-3 more waiting for me. Dont get that here, makers have moved on to more fertile fields, forums are a thing of the past unfortunately.
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Post by bloodwraith on May 13, 2017 6:01:00 GMT
Have to agree with Wes. Same thing with reviews. Post a review here and you might be lucky to get one or two replies. Post a review on facebook though and you get a mass of replies in often under an hour and people are more likely to see it due to the way facebook informs you about posts and you are more likely to get better coverage for showing people a makers work. I'm not saying that we as reviewers need that instant gratification but it takes a lot of effort to do a good review and if there isn't some form of reciprocation to say "hey, your efforts are appreciated" or if it doesn't spark conversation it can feel like a wasted effort. Also the way facebook so easily links people in and it is mainstream rather than niche such as a forum like this also puts points in facebook's favour. I'm not saying this forum is bad, I've gotten a lot out of this forum over the years and hope I have given as much back and some of the most amazing people in my life and pieces in my collection came from people I met on this forum. Problem is that when something niche competes with something mainstream and cannot do it as effectively, the niche loses out.
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Scott
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Post by Scott on May 13, 2017 7:59:25 GMT
So is Facebook better? Or are there just more people on Facebook?
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on May 13, 2017 8:03:44 GMT
Scott: More population and easier popularity.
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Ifrit
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More edgy than a double edge sword
Posts: 3,284
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Post by Ifrit on May 13, 2017 9:18:39 GMT
I think at this point the only thing that this place has an advantage of is in its community. That's what definitely keeps me here. Everyone so gosh dang friendly and everyone has a variety of insight to share. It's great when you find someone with similar hobbies as well.
Plus I find that I prefer the bubble and echo chamber here compared to anywhere else. Thus place has opinions I favour by light years, compared to any where else. Reddit makes me rub my eyes with frustration when I talk about swords over there. "hurr durr katana are pig iron, long swords are the perfectest sword in da world, expect legions of insults for thinking otherwise"
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on May 13, 2017 9:21:44 GMT
Totally unrelated but I was reading this thread all over again and listening to Guts Over Fear, and I kinda felt hope.
We need to find a way to get the forums back. I am going on a campaign...
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Ifrit
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More edgy than a double edge sword
Posts: 3,284
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Post by Ifrit on May 13, 2017 9:30:11 GMT
Totally unrelated but I was reading this thread all over again and listening to Guts Over Fear, and I kinda felt hope. We need to find a way to get the forums back. I am going on a campaign... I believe it's biggest strength is community. That's kind of a rarity in this new world. Communities are being replaced by temporary chats with people you won't meet again, continual conversations being traded in for small exchanges of words, the popular being the center of what little the world is able to scrape into a community. Maybe I'm just old school. But it feels like life is getting short on its own attention span. In order to have people continuously communicate with you, it helps to stand out. Many are starting to adapt to the patterns online, with brief communications with millions on multimedia websites like Facebook or youtube. Not saying it's bad, or not being pessimistic or even condescending. But times are changing. Forums are slowing down, while multimedia is speeding up. I read a study on how it's affection attention spans, causing people to lack the desire to focus on one thing for too long a time. But in these times, top ten videos and articles, random humour, and multiple chat groups are now favoured over lengthy documentaries, communities, and forums. I don't think this is necessarily a permenant change or a bad one. But it makes the idea of an active forum seem distant That is just my take. Maybe it will be useful for brain storming
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Post by bloodwraith on May 13, 2017 10:40:23 GMT
honestly Facebook has some advantages over a forum and it appeals to people with a "fast food" mentality. I will be the first to admit I am rather abrasive and probably not the friendliest person but I have tried to assist in at least the knowledge side if not the atmosphere or friendliness aspect. I am often a little too sarcastic for my own good :D
One of the strengths of forums in my opinion is that I can go on rambling diatribes or rants and long in-depth posts and those that still have an appreciation for the forum can take it all in, instead of it just being a fleeting thing or easily ignored. :D
I don't post as much as I used to, so I don't know a lot of people these days the way I knew some of the ones in the past but I should attempt to rectify that if I want to continue being part of the forum.
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Post by DigsFossils-n-Knives on May 13, 2017 12:30:38 GMT
So is Facebook better? Or are there just more people on Facebook? As was said above, Facebook gets you immediate responses and a lot more views and comments. But 4 hours later your post is lost and buried. No one uses the search function on Facebook. The only way to see a particular smith's work is to activity lurk their page (lurk might be the wrong word but you get the meaning). It's also easier to post pics on Facebook. But for me, and thanks Asad for the mention, I've have slowed down because of my day job and spending a lot of time taking lessons at the blacksmith's school. I just finished a large blade and I'll post pics soon. But I still check is forum on a daily basis.
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