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Post by Croccifixio on Feb 1, 2017 2:50:53 GMT
Yeah another clickbaity title. But actually they look the most like those cleavers used by the Elvish army in the intro of The Fellowship of the Ring. Anyway for context, I recently read this review by Paul Southren on the BCI Panabas: www.sword-buyers-guide.com/panabas-sword.htmlAnd Skallagrim's usage of the TFW Panabas wherein it performed exceptionally well even alongside an ATrim Falchion: Made me want to buy one. I contacted BCI already about a local purchase. But in any case, I've been reading about Panabas over in Vikingsword and I have never seen an antique that looked like the one BCI/TFW have. Am I missing something? Help Timo Nieminen! Most antique Panabas I've seen look like sugar cane machetes, with a broad and often relatively short blade (more than 15 inches would already be exceptionally long) - kinda like a shorter, broader naginata, really, or like the long handled Dao you often see in CSA demos. I'd love to see an antique that looked anywhere close to the TFW/BCI Panabas, because that's the only reason I've hesitated buying one for so long. I'd rather not buy a fantasy weapon if I can help it. Anyway guys, check it out. Looks like a beastly and yet very light cutter for the backyard. |
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Post by Faldarin on Feb 1, 2017 3:19:41 GMT
I... admittedly hadn't considered any Filipino weapons for my collection, until I originally saw Skall pull this thing out of a box and my reaction : "What.. the heck is that...?" It looks so good. I may have to think about it. Admittedly, it does very much look like 'Elvish' shortswords we've all seen in the movies. It is really wicked and fast, with all of that grip leverage too. I need to stop before I talk myself into one.
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Post by Croccifixio on Feb 1, 2017 3:44:06 GMT
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Post by Timo Nieminen on Feb 1, 2017 3:59:36 GMT
Apart from the top one there, here are four more:   From www.arscives.com/historysteel/philippines.swords.htm www.oriental-arms.com/item.php?id=104 www.oriental-arms.com/item.php?id=5724But while these are of similar profile, and for the larger ones, about the same size, they're sharpened on the other side. 1, 2, and 4 (not sure about 3) are partly double-edged - common enough for these types of panabas. Usually 1/3 to 2/3 of the back edge is sharpened. But on all of them, the front edge (which is the side that's the spine of the TFW/BCI) is sharpened all the way. While the square-tipped panabas with about 30cm of blade and 30cm of hilt is common enough, this longer pointy kind is out there too, often with about 35-40cm of hilt, and 45-50cm of blade. Much less common, and I think older (c. 1900, often). Then there are the ones with tips like kampilan tips. Lots of variety. But I've never seen an antique edged like the BCI/TFW, so maybe fantasy. At least, very rare. |
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Post by Voltan on Feb 1, 2017 4:20:18 GMT
Very interesting, and pretty cool looking!
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Post by legacyofthesword on Feb 1, 2017 5:17:13 GMT
Hot dang. I want one.
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Post by Croccifixio on Feb 1, 2017 5:40:42 GMT
I knew you'd never disappoint me Timo. :) Yeah that's the thing, the narrow blade profile makes it look more like a hybrid Garab/Talibon on a long stick than a pure Panabas. Garab from Ian over at Vikingsword:  It even reminds me of the s-curved "Negrito" bolos recently popping up on ebay that are actually Ilocano in origin and made for the export market.  Anyway, I may have found a rare example Timo. Here's something Ron over at Vikingsword posted a few months back:  from www.vikingsword.com/vb/showthread.php?t=19402&highlight=panabasThey all just look so sexy haha. I wish I could find an example as good as Ron's! |
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Post by themagicalmark on Feb 1, 2017 5:48:02 GMT
Skal made another video testing it against Gambeson which was actually a lot more effective than some of the other ones he tested. I believe he got his from here: traditionalfilipinoweapons.com/ they have some other good offerings as well. |
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Post by Timo Nieminen on Feb 1, 2017 6:03:16 GMT
Looks like the back edge is about 60% long, so similar to the ones I linked. In the 3rd photo, you can see that the base of the back isn't edged. |
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Post by Croccifixio on Feb 1, 2017 6:46:19 GMT
Skal made another video testing it against Gambeson which was actually a lot more effective than some of the other ones he tested. I believe he got his from here: traditionalfilipinoweapons.com/ they have some other good offerings as well. Yep it delivered the most effective cut. It even did far better than his Tinker Complex-hilted Longsword, his Albions (including his Albion Knecht even, though I think he also cut badly with it), and pretty much went through the gambeson like a hot knife through butter. Also I'm pretty sure TFW/traditionalfilipinoweapons gets their stuff from the same place as BCI, and I've argued this on Facebook sword sites for quite some time. There's a whole lot of circumstantial (and at least one instance of direct) evidence for this. I will confirm it though, once and for all, when I visit BCI's forge sometime this year. Anyway, this is the aforementioned video: |
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Post by Lukas MG (chenessfan) on Feb 1, 2017 19:34:42 GMT
It was no surprise to me that the longsword didn't cut through. A (straight) edge drawn across such a wide surface with give just can't be expected to cut through. Nor can most curved edges, really. What you need to penetrate is focusing energy on a smuch smaller area. For example the CoP of a kopis, the very tip of a sharp blade like the Panabas or the claw-like karambit.
With anything else you need to either bypass the defense, hit a spot with hard backing beneath (collar bone, shoulder, foreram) or at least an area that is smaller so less edge makes contact (upper arm).
I would in fact be rather oblivious to someone throwing a underhau or Zwerch to my lower torso or chest (with a longsword at least), as long as there was a minimum of light padding over it, like several layers of clothing. If I got their head in exchange, not a bad idea at all. As long as the cut doesn't turn into a thrust that is...
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Post by Croccifixio on Feb 1, 2017 20:12:21 GMT
It was no surprise to me that the longsword didn't cut through. A (straight) edge drawn across such a wide surface with give just can't be expected to cut through. Nor can most curved edges, really. What you need to penetrate is focusing energy on a smuch smaller area. For example the CoP of a kopis, the very tip of a sharp blade like the Panabas or the claw-like karambit. With anything else you need to either bypass the defense, hit a spot with hard backing beneath (collar bone, shoulder, foreram) or at least an area that is smaller so less edge makes contact (upper arm). I would in fact be rather oblivious to someone throwing a underhau or Zwerch to my lower torso or chest (with a longsword at least), as long as there was a minimum of light padding over it, like several layers of clothing. If I got their head in exchange, not a bad idea at all. As long as the cut doesn't turn into a thrust that is... That reminds me of another set of videos, the recent series of Matt Easton on Double hits in HEMA where his point was (rightly) made that not all doubles are created equal. I wish there was a way to judge those things better. |
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Post by howler on Feb 1, 2017 20:45:13 GMT
It was no surprise to me that the longsword didn't cut through. A (straight) edge drawn across such a wide surface with give just can't be expected to cut through. Nor can most curved edges, really. What you need to penetrate is focusing energy on a smuch smaller area. For example the CoP of a kopis, the very tip of a sharp blade like the Panabas or the claw-like karambit. With anything else you need to either bypass the defense, hit a spot with hard backing beneath (collar bone, shoulder, foreram) or at least an area that is smaller so less edge makes contact (upper arm). I would in fact be rather oblivious to someone throwing a underhau or Zwerch to my lower torso or chest (with a longsword at least), as long as there was a minimum of light padding over it, like several layers of clothing. If I got their head in exchange, not a bad idea at all. As long as the cut doesn't turn into a thrust that is... Good points. And on a much smaller scale, I have a few folding knives with serrated edges that are better at getting a point of penetration/purchase (concentrating force by reducing surface area), and thus not sliding off the target. |
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Post by howler on Feb 1, 2017 20:47:13 GMT
I... admittedly hadn't considered any Filipino weapons for my collection, until I originally saw Skall pull this thing out of a box and my reaction : "What.. the heck is that...?" It looks so good. I may have to think about it. Admittedly, it does very much look like 'Elvish' shortswords we've all seen in the movies. It is really wicked and fast, with all of that grip leverage too. I need to stop before I talk myself into one. Don't stop. At least that's what my heart says when I look at that thing. |
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gandermail
Member
Bill, WEWolf, Slackitude...I need to settle on a name.
Posts: 248
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Post by gandermail on Feb 1, 2017 23:49:19 GMT
I've been yenning for some of TFW's sharp pointy goodness for a while. I don't recall when I first found out about Filipino weapons but they're so unique and, to my eyes, cool. However, the panabas looks odd and weird to me. But I've heard great things about them. It was, I believe, Shadowhowler who effusively praised the TFW panabas for it's handling and cutting abilities but those antiques really rev my motor up.
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stormmaster
Member
I like viking/migration era swords
Posts: 7,714
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Post by stormmaster on Feb 1, 2017 23:53:18 GMT
 nothing beats my bae in elven style  |
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Post by Lukas MG (chenessfan) on Feb 2, 2017 5:49:46 GMT
It was no surprise to me that the longsword didn't cut through. A (straight) edge drawn across such a wide surface with give just can't be expected to cut through. Nor can most curved edges, really. What you need to penetrate is focusing energy on a smuch smaller area. For example the CoP of a kopis, the very tip of a sharp blade like the Panabas or the claw-like karambit. With anything else you need to either bypass the defense, hit a spot with hard backing beneath (collar bone, shoulder, foreram) or at least an area that is smaller so less edge makes contact (upper arm). I would in fact be rather oblivious to someone throwing a underhau or Zwerch to my lower torso or chest (with a longsword at least), as long as there was a minimum of light padding over it, like several layers of clothing. If I got their head in exchange, not a bad idea at all. As long as the cut doesn't turn into a thrust that is... That reminds me of another set of videos, the recent series of Matt Easton on Double hits in HEMA where his point was (rightly) made that not all doubles are created equal. I wish there was a way to judge those things better. Indeed... I am convinced that in a good number of cases, "double hits" really aren't "double kills" and often, it can absolutely make sense to trade one for the other. It's impossible to avoid a double if someome wants to go for it... so getting the best possible hit in yourself and keeping the most vulnerable parts of yourself covered, even at the risk of getting (inefficiently?) hit somewhere else might be not that bad a plan. Obviously a clean, one-sided hit (on the opponent) is preferable but I feel that many hits that are classified as doubles and therefore "aarghhh, stupid!!" really aren't that stupid. |
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Post by william m on Feb 2, 2017 14:05:39 GMT
I always thought that the clevers from LOTR were inspired by Thai Dha swords.  |
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Post by Croccifixio on Feb 3, 2017 2:00:06 GMT
Perhaps. Also Nagimaki (probably even closer). But there is a bit of a forward curve in the handle that you don't have in Dha and Nagimaki. Could be an influence of them all:  |
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Post by AceofHats on Feb 3, 2017 2:32:22 GMT
I've owned a TFW Panabas. They are crazy cool. I remember wishing it was a bit longer overall. Blade's only 20-22 inches long. I could very easily go for a 25-26 blade with same length handle.
Honestly, I don't know why more vendors don't offer these.
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