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Post by salanizi on Nov 30, 2016 12:44:26 GMT
Hello All, After owning a CS 1796, and a Universal 1853, I swore never to buy one of those Indian made sword like objects again due to the way they handle; like sledge hammers. After that I tried and loved the CS Shamshir, but then that is a different animal altogether however I sold it due to the fact that it is quite short at only 30". Looking at the stats of the two recently added Weapons Edge (and only ones) on KultofAthena, one is already sold out, they seem to have much better stats than their Universal Sword cousins, much lighter and better taper. Anyone had a go at these? WES French Imperial Guard SaberWES French Scout Officer Saber
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Post by bfoo2 on Nov 30, 2016 16:25:08 GMT
The Blue and Gilt line seems to be unique to WeaponEdge for now. Whether that makes them any better than the Universal Swords offerings is anyone's guess.
I owned the Scout Officer's Saber. Beautiful blade with the brass, gold and blue. Handling was actually pretty decent; however that was accomplished by cheating as the blade itself is quite light (KoA says 5.4mm base, mine was closer to 6mm). You can compensate for lack of taper by making the blade thin enough. I also didn't like how the grip narrows towards the back, thus depriving the palm much-needed support (however, this is a problem with the original too, not the replica!)
The stats on the Imperial Guard Saber look much more convincing. 8mm - 2.6mm is actually very good taper for a repro. Most Napoleonic cavalry swords start at 10mm, but 8 isn't too bad and is comparable to infantry swords and even some later-19th century cav weapons. 7in PoB on a sub-2lb weapon is also very respectable. Finally, the grips looks much more supportive. I'd be inclined to give this one a shot if I had more money. Even if it handles like a brick (which I doubt), you can nail it to you wall and look at it in it's blue and gold glory.
Note: on my example of the scout officer's sword, the blue and gold wasn't flawless. There were patches of non-uniformity. If you look closely at the KoA images, you can see areas where the blue is thinner (and a bit of gold shines through). I found it didn't detract from the appearance too much (after all, there's nothing wrong with an antique sword that's a little worn), but be advised...
Will attach pics later.
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Uhlan
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Post by Uhlan on Dec 1, 2016 10:08:14 GMT
I have the Imperial Guard or the Chasseur a Cheval, like it's called on the spine. The taper looks nice if one sees the KOA numbers, but this is highly misleading. Though the thickness at the guard is 8mm, which is not bad at all, the taper down the blade is not very well done. At the start of the false edge the blade is still 5mm thick, so the blade feels like almost all other replicas, sluggish and not wanting to move. Looking at the antiques, at that point it should have been 2-3mm thick. Not more. This sluggish effect is hightened by the too slender grip. The length of the grip is okay when handled bare handed, but not adequate when handled with gauntlets. Then it may feel cramped depending on the size of the hand. I have medium hands and the grip bothers me somewhat, like in ,, I can live with it but it could be better''. It is not easy to change position and do wrist flicks with that can opener like tip. Though this sabre is a attention grabber, what with that awesome tip section, the blue and gild, that very well done and detailed hilt and scabbard and is put together very well, the best handling replica sabre is still the Universal Princess of Wales. It is not that flashy, but it is just as sturdy and well made. It is amazing though what you get for your $$, in both cases. I took the Chasseur out of its rack to meassure the blade and was thinking how it is that one can get such good quality replicas still, for such a low price. Build quality of these sabres is more than excellent and for the price just unbelievable. Really! Both the Chasseur and the Princess are sabres to be proud of, but the former is more a looker and the latter more a weapon. Take your pic or get both. You will not be disappointed. Edit: I see that Dave still has not brought his review back. Maybe I can whip one up this weekend. The conclusions will not change one bit though, just packaged in more blah blah.
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Post by bluetrain on Dec 1, 2016 13:12:11 GMT
Are the blades of these swords plated where they aren't blued? And the same question for other Universal or Windlass "modern" swords? I do believe some definitely are because someone at Universal actually said so, as well as the guards. He even pointed out that some models receive a high polish compared with others. But I was still left wondering if all their military swords had plated blades or not. I assume that at least older swords (Napoleonic war period) would not have been.
I also wonder if sword makers are ever tempted to improve their swords over the originals. Clearly Cold Steel does that, for better or worse, but it doesn't sound like others get their reproductions quite correct very often, much less "improve" them. Mostly, all of this is a moot point since they're all more than my wife is willing for me to pay.
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pgandy
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Post by pgandy on Dec 1, 2016 15:38:10 GMT
Thanks Uhlan. After seeing KoA’s numbers I decided to tentively put it on my list instead of the Princess of Wales for a March order. I have no sabre and would like one as my next sword. Although the Chasseur Saber sells for $90 more my cost will be at least $150 more but was considering it, now I am back to the Princess of Wales.
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pgandy
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Post by pgandy on Dec 1, 2016 15:43:50 GMT
I would rather my swords not be plated as in order to sharpen the plating will be cut through leaving the blade partially plated in some areas and other areas not.
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Post by Afoo on Dec 1, 2016 15:50:55 GMT
Thanks Uhlan. After seeing KoA’s numbers I decided to attentively put it on my list instead of the Princess of Wales for a March order. I have no sabre and would like one as my next sword. Although the Chasseur Saber sells for $90 more my cost will be at least $150 more but was considering it, now I am back to the Princess of Wales. The Universal Princess of Wales is definitely worth it though - both myself and bfoo2 have one and it never fails to disappoint.
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pgandy
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Post by pgandy on Dec 1, 2016 16:05:39 GMT
The Universal Princess of Wales is definitely worth it though - both myself and bfoo2 have one and it never fails to disappoint. I really want the Princess of Wales and hopefully can order before March. With my luck they will probably be out of stock, but I’ll wait if so. Now is a good time to ask; how much of the true each do you recommend sharpening? Is there any reason that I should not sharpen the false edge?
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Uhlan
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Post by Uhlan on Dec 1, 2016 16:20:57 GMT
I have never seen nor heard about a plated sabre or sword from Weapon Edge or Universal. The blades are well polished just like the originals and can be sharpened quite easely. Hardness should be around 45 HRC, though that may vary a bit to the down side. WE and Uni. do not have the electric oven Windlass has for tempering. That said, I never read any comments that the blades are prone to bending, nor that they are too soft. As is the case, the blades are quite like, or even better, than the originals in that regard. The only gripes I have is the distal taper and for those with big hands, that the grips are made for the Indian market, so can be quite tight on some models, compared with the antiques. I do not want to push anything on people, but the blue and gild models are very much worth the ridiculously low price. Cutting with them will destroy the blue, so that taper thing really is of secondary importance anyway.
Afoo: If you want to plug the Princess, you'd better have a look at what you wrote above.
,, The Universal Princess of Wales is definitely worth it though - both myself and bfoo2 have one and it never fails to DISAPPOINT.'' :D
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Uhlan
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Post by Uhlan on Dec 1, 2016 16:36:40 GMT
Pgandy: Sharpening the false edge is up to you. Some did and some did not, in the past. Note: Sharpening the blue and gild sabres should be done in a way as to not destroy that finish. KOA have the tendency to sharpen the entire blade. In the past only the second half of the blade was sharpened, if at all. The first half, seen from the guard, was unsharpened and only used to parry. If you let KOA do the sharpening, which they do quite well I may add as compared to many antique sharpening jobs which can be awful, like 5mm wide secondary bevels with huge grind marks from those enormous grind stones the armourers at bivouac used, you had better inform them about this or do the job yourself. That aside, the Princess is made from iron. Everything. Not one bit of bronze in sight. So, in your heck of the woods pgandy, this calls for extra care if I am not wrong.
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Post by salanizi on Dec 1, 2016 16:38:50 GMT
MMmmm...Darn,
I thought they would have finally nailed it with these two.
So I guess the scout officer saber is the best between the two, I do not like the look of the Prince of Wales saber, blade looks too thin for my taste.
I actually spoke to the guy running the Universal Swords on many occasions (had a few custom orders made) and every single time I urged him to have a read over the forums on the internet. They just need to get their taper right. I guess that is a challenge for them still.
I find it very interesting how the models off US and WE come so close alike (maybe it is the same factory after all) but it seems that with these two sabers on the market, maybe WE is starting to get it.
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Uhlan
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Post by Uhlan on Dec 1, 2016 16:48:34 GMT
WE and Uni are two warring factions of the same family with a workshop each. Word is that Uni stole the molds from WE when they started on their own.... I thought the Princess was 7mm at the guard. So not bad for a replica at all.
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Post by bluetrain on Dec 1, 2016 17:01:08 GMT
This is from the horse's mouth, so to speak:
"We, UNIVERSAL SWORDS ™ (a unit of M/s. BHOORA RAM CHOUHAN & SONS.) is a well known manufacturer and exporter of Military and Historical Swords from past several decades. We have an excellent track record as a manufacturer and wholesaler in this industry. We are a company with a glorious past, present and we are working for an excellent future. We are proud to present authentically crafted items especially the Military Swords, British Swords, German Swords, French Swords, American Swords, Japanese Swords and 18th, 19th, 20th Century Swords, Daggers, Knives, Bayonets and Accessories.
Each of our sword is beautifully handcrafted, traditionally hand forged and are well in balance and in finish. Our emphasis has always been on creating high quality replicas as historically accurate.
Yes, our swords comes with fine finishing with Nickel plating, we also do gold and silver plating (on request)."
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Post by bluetrain on Dec 1, 2016 17:14:01 GMT
A couple of additional comments here, the first about sharpening swords.
You've probably all seen photos of swords being sharpened by British cavalry before they were shipped overseas. In all cases there were stacks of swords next to a manually turned old-fashioned grindstone. I imagine the results, although authentic, would be a little shocking for someone expecting fine workmanship. And I can only imagine what the swords might look like after a campaign.
Since we're talking about reproductions of historical swords, it should be expected that the same model sword from different manufacturers look pretty much the same. That was true 150 years ago when multiple manufacturers provided military swords and it would likely be true in all countries, at least as far as the patterns were standardized. That may have been true only under the best of circumstances but nevertheless, it seems only logical. However, I imagine that when emergency circumstances resulted in manufacturing in factories that had never made swords before, more differences might show up, especially in the absence of a official patterns and the shortage of everything. Here I'm think primarily of the Confederacy in the Civil War. Of course, everything is in short supply during wartime, except maybe in the case of the Confederate Army, tobacco. Likewise, there have always been unofficial sources of supply for individuals outside of the normal supply system that provided non-regulation patterns. That's still true.
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Uhlan
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Post by Uhlan on Dec 1, 2016 17:17:41 GMT
The nickel plating comes in for the models that had nickel plating in the first place, so the more modern models. As I said before, I have never seen one and the 18th C. models do not have it as this would be contrary to this same ,, historically accurate'' statement made above. Nickel plating started around 1875 on an industrial scale, so for their models from around and after that time there is a possibilety that some are plated as that would be historically accurate.
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pgandy
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Post by pgandy on Dec 1, 2016 18:51:39 GMT
Pgandy: Sharpening the false edge is up to you. Some did and some did not, in the past. Note: Sharpening the blue and gild sabres should be done in a way as to not destroy that finish. KOA have the tendency to sharpen the entire blade. In the past only the second half of the blade was sharpened, if at all. The first half, seen from the guard, was unsharpened and only used to parry. If you let KOA do the sharpening, which they do quite well I may add as compared to many antique sharpening jobs which can be awful, like 5mm wide secondary bevels with huge grind marks from those enormous grind stones the armourers at bivouac used, you had better inform them about this or do the job yourself. That aside, the Princess is made from iron. Everything. Not one bit of bronze in sight. So, in your heck of the woods pgandy, this calls for extra care if I am not wrong. You state pretty close to what I was thinking, but I am always open to ideas and suggestions. I was strongly thinking sharpening the forward half but had not ruled out a third. If I go the blue and gilded route which I doubt that portion of the blade will not be touched. I was planning on sharpening myself as I don’t like KoA’s work although I have to admit that they do save me time so I have not ruled that out entirely. Admittedly their grind marks are a real turn off but can be worked out as I have done in the past. I’ve seen those marks quite course and others finer for a lack of a better description. KoA will sharpen only a portion of the blade on request. So I have to decide between the faster redoing a KoA job and not entirely getting out the secondary bevel or starting from scratch and getting a convex edge. I have no sander so that will be much work, I’ve done it before. That is how I am leaning. My targets will be soft as obtaining a sword for me is a monumental and expensive task, so I bend over backwards not to abuse one. A working knife is another story. I try not to deliberately abuse them but expect them to deliver, and so far so good.
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Post by bfoo2 on Dec 1, 2016 18:55:14 GMT
Likewise, I have not heard of a nickle-plated Universal/WeaponEdge weapon. As Ulahn said, they might do it for some of their modern dress/officer weapons (British 1897 inf officer, 1912 cav officer, 1872 Life Guards) where it would be appropriate pgandy: I have a Universal Princess of Wales that was sharpened. No sign of plating on the blade, if that's your concern. Also not sure if they could do Blue and Gold on top of plating (or why they'd even go through the extra hassle). I had the Scout Officer's sword and I'm sure the blue and gold models are plating free.
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Post by bfoo2 on Dec 1, 2016 18:57:53 GMT
Afoo: If you want to plug the Princess, you'd better have a look at what you wrote above. ,, The Universal Princess of Wales is definitely worth it though - both myself and bfoo2 have one and it never fails to DISAPPOINT.'' That gets to me. Every time I pick it up expecting a useless crowbar and I get a good handling sword. DANGIT! I WANTED A CROWBAR!
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Post by bluetrain on Dec 1, 2016 19:31:22 GMT
All my comments were about modern swords, meaning since the 1790s, although you might define modern as post American Civil War.
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Uhlan
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Post by Uhlan on Dec 1, 2016 20:39:13 GMT
Pgandy: Whatever you decide on, I hope you will be spared the awefull bureaucratic nightmare you had to go through in the past. Also, if you go for the all iron Princess, you may consider asking KOA to oil the sabre and scabbard and wrapping it up with some shrink plastic foil. If it winds up sitting in some humid customs shed for a couple of weeks you'll need some extra KOA anti rust service. Good luck!
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