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Post by Deleted on Nov 27, 2016 3:12:27 GMT
If you're someone who is bothered by someone who asks a ton of questions then step away from this thread now because you won't like me. But if you're someone who likes to take their time to share their knowledge with someone who will appreciate your help and wants to learn then this is the place for you. I have a lot of questions about steel. (pardon the Conan reference for the thread title.) I'll start with this one. Is there a type of steel that is considered to be the top of the line for swords?
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Post by Jordan Williams on Nov 27, 2016 3:32:46 GMT
5160 is a popular choice, as well as 1045, 1055 and 1075. T10 Tool steel is also a reportedly tough steel.
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Post by Deleted on Nov 27, 2016 3:38:45 GMT
Does one of them stand out as the best of the best or is it more complicated than that?
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Post by chrisperoni on Nov 27, 2016 4:51:34 GMT
It's a super tough question because everyone has their favourite and people always argue for what they like most. Another big issue is the differences between steel types make some better suited than others depending on the construction, shape, use - that sort of thing. Yet another point is the argument that the smith is the most important factor; that is to say it's better to have someone who knows how to properly treat the steel, rather than have a preferred steel that is mishandled. Personally I fall into the "it's the smith, not the steel" that counts faction.
All that said, typically people seem to like spring steels like 5160 or 9260 over the 10xx series. But then again, you can spring temper all kinds of steels, and I like me some 10xx steels plenty (some real nice hamon action in them is one reason). Another couple of steels that get that "super steel" thing mentioned about them are S7, L6 bainite.
There's tons more to consider of course but this is start.
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Post by DigsFossils-n-Knives on Nov 27, 2016 5:17:47 GMT
There is no "type of steel that is considered to be the top of the line for swords". But to limit the list of viable steels for swords you might need to point out most important properties for a sword.
When properly heat treated: 5160 would be great spring steel (but not in edge holding) S7 would be a great tough steel (but not in edge holding) L6 would be very good in toughness and very good in edge holding CPM 3V would be very good in toughness and great in edge holding
1075, 1080, 1084, 1095 (similar to T10) great for hamons. Within these 10xx steels the toughness increases with the lower carbon content and increases in edge holding with increasing carbon content.
etc.
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AndiTheBarvarian
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Post by AndiTheBarvarian on Nov 27, 2016 9:18:03 GMT
Facing Crom I'd say: "Not Stainless, more than 0,4 % carbon and a good heat treatment. If that's not enough, then to hell with you!".
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stormmaster
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Post by stormmaster on Nov 27, 2016 9:36:36 GMT
each steel has its benefits and faults, my personal favorite is 9260, but im perfectly fine with 1075 as well
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Luka
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Post by Luka on Nov 27, 2016 13:50:47 GMT
I'm satisfied the most with my swords made of 6150 and 5160. Are they better steels than others? I don't know, the thing is probably they were heat treated by people who really know what they are doing... (Albion, Del Tin, Hanwei Tinker...) Oh, and what Viktor Berbekucz is using (51 CRV4 ). :D
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Post by Deleted on Nov 27, 2016 14:20:17 GMT
Interesting. Thanks for the responses. I've heard the term carbon steel but doesn't all steel have carbon in it?
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AndiTheBarvarian
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Post by AndiTheBarvarian on Nov 27, 2016 15:16:20 GMT
You are right: steel = iron + carbon (0,4 - ca. 2 %; more makes cast iron). You can add some alloys to make steel a bit more flexible (silicon for spring steel) or give more hardenabilty (tool steel) with the right heat treatment. With ca. 12 % crome it becomes stainless but usually to brittle for swords. "Carbon steel" means usually "not stainless steel", even though stainless steel has carbon too. Similar problem with "spring steel", which usually means steel with some Si, but you can heat treat steel with only carbon to be springy. Don't overrate alloys, for a sword the most important thing is how it's formed and heat treated. So 99 % is the smith, 1 % is the steel. As Luka said, it's more important that a smith is skilled with "his" steel, than what steel this is.
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Luka
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Post by Luka on Nov 27, 2016 15:43:49 GMT
Yes, it usually means it's not stainless and that it has optimal amount of carbon for heat treating (usually 0.5-1%).
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Post by Croccifixio on Nov 27, 2016 16:57:27 GMT
The usual "carbon steel" term for blades is simply an abbreviated form of "steel with enough carbon to harden during quenching, but not alloyed." The 1045-95 series is your basic set of carbon steels as is often understood in the blade community.
And as everyone said, preference is king (and skillful heat treatment is queen). You can keep it simple with the 10xx series. You can go for cheap toughness like 5160, or expensive toughness like cpm3v. You can go for aesthetically pleasing steel like pattern-welded nickel steel (15n20) with high carbon steel (1095). You can even go green or oldschool with reused/recycled steel like leafsprings or coils or bandsaw blades or old files.
My personal take is of course, it depends. I want a really pretty hamon? W2 steel. A federschwert for HEMA sparring? 5160 or 9260 and their equivalent. A beater? I'd be happy with 1060. A custom piece for the collection? Pattern-weld. High performance steel for a custom sword? Whatever John Lundemo wants to use.
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Post by Deleted on Nov 27, 2016 17:38:08 GMT
Wow, you folks are smart. But then I already knew that. Thanks for the info. What were the swords made of in the medieval days and how hard is it to spot a fake?
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AndiTheBarvarian
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Post by AndiTheBarvarian on Nov 27, 2016 18:14:42 GMT
Simplistic: From 1045 - 1095, mostly 1060 - 1075, without alloys but with more inpurities. To spot a fake is not easy, chemical analysis? Common sword steels are not so expensive that I fear fakes from well known makers/companies. If you buy an expensive overhyped steel like "tamagahane", "L6" or "damascus" from no name seller, it can be 1045 or stainless. But you can make a good sword even with 1045. A stainless fake could be dangerous.
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Post by L Driggers (fallen) on Nov 27, 2016 18:27:38 GMT
Giving to much credit to medieval swords most were carp,carbon steel heat treat was all over the place. One sword was test the same blade came in at any where from 30rc to 60rc.
Todays sword are far better.
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Post by Deleted on Nov 27, 2016 18:50:52 GMT
I would love to buy a genuine medieval sword someday but it would be way to risky for a beginner. But I don't want to get off the subject. Where does the carbon come from when making swords?
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AndiTheBarvarian
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Post by AndiTheBarvarian on Nov 27, 2016 19:02:30 GMT
Medieval times: The charcoal used in the bloomery to heat up the ore.
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Post by Deleted on Nov 27, 2016 19:30:30 GMT
Am I correct in assuming it's coal today?
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AndiTheBarvarian
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Post by AndiTheBarvarian on Nov 27, 2016 19:49:38 GMT
Today it's fuel coke, coal has to much sulfur which is bad in steel.
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stormmaster
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Post by stormmaster on Nov 27, 2016 22:18:14 GMT
modern steel is way better then medieval steel, swords back then were alot softer
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