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Post by 1776 on Dec 20, 2016 21:10:45 GMT
On taking a closer look, it seems 1095 is a very solid option for a tough steel, for knives. As I stated above, 1095 is used in ESEE knives. ESEE are VERY tough. I also found out that KA-BAR Becker knives are also made out of 1095. Both the ESEE and the Becker are VERY tough, good knives. I would almost venture to say that they are unrivaled in the toughest knife field. They seems to be very sharp too. So, as it stands, it looks like 1095 is a very viable option for a tough steel. It almost looks like you don't NEED to bother with "super steels".
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Post by Timo Nieminen on Dec 20, 2016 21:45:12 GMT
It almost looks like you don't NEED to bother with "super steels". Delete that "almost", and you're spot-on!
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Post by Croccifixio on Dec 21, 2016 2:40:01 GMT
Super steels will work as advertised... but then again, that doesn't mean they perform that much better than normal 10xx high carbon steels. Just that in certain conditions, they will. But never commensurate to the price. That's why the use of super steels will ultimately depend on how much you're willing to shell out just for a miniscule performance boost/knowledge that the steel is a tiny bit better than usual.
More often than not though, the use of these steels is a bit of a bragging/prestige thing.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 21, 2016 3:09:13 GMT
Sorry that this beginner is interrupting a conversation between experts but I'm still struggling to get all this. I have a dirt cheap machete that I bought 35 years ago and I've beat the crap out of that thing and never broke it and have sharpened it several times. It's hardly "super steel" but I can't imagine something enduring what I have put it through better. Is "super steel" overrated or did I just get a great deal?
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Post by Timo Nieminen on Dec 21, 2016 4:10:33 GMT
There's a trade-off between "hard" and "tough". As-quenched, your steel is hard, but can be brittle. So you temper it, and increase the toughness, at the cost of losing some hardness.
A machete needs to be tough, so you temper for toughness, while retaining useful hardness. If it was a super-steel machete, it should be harder, while still being as tough. With suitable heat treatment, a super-steel machete would have survived everything your machete survived, and wouldn't have needed sharpening as often. If you found your machete was sharp enough, and you didn't need to spend too much time or effort sharpening it, you didn't need a super-steel machete.
For an example I can name some steels for, and put some numbers to: chef's knives. A chef's knife should be very hard, but doesn't need to be as tough as a machete, so it will be heat-treated to be quite hard. (A cleaver will need to be tough, and will usually be softer than a chef's knife.)
So what does a "super steel" give you here? For a chef's knife, X50CrMoV15 might end up with a hardness of 55-57HRC. An average super-steel, like VG-10, might give acceptable toughness at 60-61HRC. A top-end super-steel, like ZDP-189 (3% carbon!) might give you 66HRC. That's a huge difference in hardnesses. But plenty of people like their 55HRC X50CrMoV15 chef's knives. They'll cut. They just need to be sharpened more often, and won't support as acute an edge angle.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 21, 2016 4:26:00 GMT
Thanks for that great explanation Timo.
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AndiTheBarvarian
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Post by AndiTheBarvarian on Dec 21, 2016 15:28:10 GMT
1776 has a thread in this section about a Steel rockwell-toughness chart. There you can see with two steels heat treated to different hardness grades how lower-hardness tempering increases toughness and reduces hardness/wear resistance in the same steel.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 21, 2016 20:53:55 GMT
Just got done reading Sword Buyer's Guide......Sword Steels 101. Fantastic! What a great piece for a beginner....so easy to follow and understand!
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Post by AndiTheBarvarian on Dec 22, 2016 5:01:22 GMT
Yeah, I learned much there too. Also from Wikipedia all the steel and steelmaking history things.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 29, 2016 15:40:55 GMT
How much of a factor is the size of the sword when considering the type of steel recommended? More specifically, what is the best kind of steel for a sword that is very long? Would it matter what its width is?
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Post by AndiTheBarvarian on Dec 29, 2016 17:11:06 GMT
I 've never heard that for a longer or more or less broader blade a certain steel is better than another.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 29, 2016 18:16:51 GMT
You're probably right. I might have misinterpreted a post I read in "ordering a custom made sword" by DigsFossils-n-knives where he recommends 5160 spring steel or S7 steel for a blade that is as long as 40 inches.
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Post by AndiTheBarvarian on Dec 29, 2016 18:30:54 GMT
I would rely on the steel, the bladesmith/producer usually works and is experienced with. 5160 seems to be good to work with, heat treating too. Of course you don't want a 40" bidenhander with a katana-like diferrencial hardening.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 11, 2017 3:30:26 GMT
Is there a thread where the History Channel TV show "Forged in Fire" is discussed? I checked around. Maybe I didn't dig deep enough.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 11, 2017 3:37:27 GMT
Found it down in the Cafe. Didn't think of looking there because I thought it was mostly off-topic stuff. There's an episode on tonight. I'm recording it.
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