AndiTheBarvarian
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Post by AndiTheBarvarian on Nov 23, 2016 12:30:55 GMT
Afaik tanned leather is no good armor, only better than nothing. Rawhide should be better protecting, stiffer and tougher. There is "boiled leather" too, which shoud be hard, so better against blunt weapons. In general leather is said to be much heavier for the same protection than a gambeson or chain/plate mail. But as said, better than nothing, and if you have no alternative, use it.
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Post by MOK on Nov 23, 2016 12:32:32 GMT
The main thing is that you don't want actual leather for "leather" armor. You want rawhide. Tanning is what you do to turn hard rawhide into soft leather, i.e. the opposite of what you want in armor and a total waste of time and materials.
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Post by Deleted on Nov 23, 2016 14:39:12 GMT
I am not planning much on 'leather armor'. I am planning on rawhide torso, so it's hard. Maybe sleeveless. Then add forearm and hand protection with leg protection and you are good to go.
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AndiTheBarvarian
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Post by AndiTheBarvarian on Nov 23, 2016 15:07:17 GMT
A bearskin or other animal pelt over your shoulders would look immensely barbaric.
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Ifrit
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Post by Ifrit on Nov 23, 2016 16:43:28 GMT
Truth be told, I'm not sure how a person can stream line it when using multiple types of armour. What ideas you got so far ? I would have to lose the jacket if I want stream line. In the Halloween tread, I got my ninja gear posted. I imagine it would be pretty good for a streamline type outfit. My armour is built around the concept that if I'm wrestling a knife from a guys hands, I'm not in too big of danger if his hands slip and he tries cut my wrists, hands, or tries to stab my stomach. I wouldn't just stand there expecting to be impervious, but if I tried to get out of the way and I just wasn't fast enough and he gets in a weak thrust, I won't end up with an inch deep wound. The armour concept of mine works with someone who has a bit of training, so it minimizes the chances of accidental cuts and such. If I was looking to making it impervious to thrusts from a sword or spear, I think steel armour on the arms and shoulders, along with plate inserts would suffice. Is that along the lines of what you are looking into? Or something a bit stronger ? My basic EDC armor will have cut-proofing (through a light single layer of cloth, versions of which I still need to explore) and have layers of Kevlar or equivalent, treated heavily with highly sensitive and nearer to 💯 % feedback Shear Thickening Fluids. The cut-proof cloth might be layered at key areas, although the need to do so might not arise. This includes torso armor till now. I MIGHT include a more pulled back design and apply that to a leg armor too. The armor would and could be worn on the outside without any additional covering but you could easily add layers without looking out of place. That is 'Ground State' armor. I have about two more versions above planned and two levels/variations of add-ons planned. Let me know if you would like to learn about it. POINT TO BE NOTED:- This armor is not intended to be bullet proof, although I might add variations with 'Add-ons'. But this was never intended for ballistic protection and such attacks require proper bullet proof armor. Also, I am not designing 'Fantasy' armor, this is proper armor. Although, this could be the next big step to conquering the BatMan Suit.
That's a pretty good idea actually. I might have to "borrow" some concepts from you
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Post by Deleted on Nov 23, 2016 17:16:51 GMT
Thanks. By all means do so. But if you are waiting for a DIY or WIP on this, wait a few years😂
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Post by themagicalmark on Nov 23, 2016 22:21:46 GMT
I make leather armor and I must say, 11-12 ounce leather is very impact resistant and its hard to cut even if its not boiled. Its not hard to guess why it was never used. Leather was more expensive in the middle ages, metal armor was more effective and Gambeson is more flexible.
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Post by themagicalmark on Nov 23, 2016 22:23:01 GMT
I am not planning much on 'leather armor'. I am planning on rawhide torso, so it's hard. Maybe sleeveless. Then add forearm and hand protection with leg protection and you are good to go. Are you familiar with Buff Coats?
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Post by themagicalmark on Nov 23, 2016 22:29:58 GMT
Question about leather as armor: Although I can't imagine (even with my vivid imagination) that any form of leather armor would provide any protection from a club or mace (or baseball bat) type weapon, do different leathers provide any significant difference in cut protection? Or different tanning processes? I have no idea how many kinds of leathers there are. I do know that shoe leather as used in boots provides next to no protection against an axe or chainsaw, or for that matter, from a heavy object being dropped. But it provides fairly decent protection from some cuts and scrapes and apparently good protection for the toes is simple enough to provide and is widely used. In theory, at least, whatever is used for hard toe work boots provides relatively good protection. It probably provides next to no protection against bullets, though, the same way steel armor provided little or no protection against bullets when it was last in common use by some soldiers, probably in the early 18th century. But I'd think leather armor would provide fairly decent cut protection, provided the leather was "fairly decent." From my own experience and you can find some good tests on youtube about it. But yes they can take cuts and thrusts pretty well. its very dependent on the ounce of the leather. Ive read that boiled leather is actually easier to slice.
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AndiTheBarvarian
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Post by AndiTheBarvarian on Nov 24, 2016 5:32:34 GMT
I make leather armor and I must say, 11-12 ounce leather is very impact resistant and its hard to cut even if its not boiled. Its not hard to guess why it was never used. Leather was more expensive in the middle ages, metal armor was more effective and Gambeson is more flexible. Sometimes I read about xxx ounce leather, but I can't imagine how heavy an armor then would be. What would be the overall weight of such a leather coat like a half sleeve mail?
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Post by Deleted on Nov 24, 2016 5:57:51 GMT
I make leather armor and I must say, 11-12 ounce leather is very impact resistant and its hard to cut even if its not boiled. Its not hard to guess why it was never used. Leather was more expensive in the middle ages, metal armor was more effective and Gambeson is more flexible. I make leather armor and I must say, 11-12 ounce leather is very impact resistant and its hard to cut even if its not boiled. Its not hard to guess why it was never used. Leather was more expensive in the middle ages, metal armor was more effective and Gambeson is more flexible. Sometimes I read about xxx ounce leather, but I can't imagine how heavy an armor then would be. What would be the overall weight of such a leather coat like a half sleeve mail? Yes, I too am curious about the weight/mass of a leather armor that is decent enough to provide a first starting layer of protection. I am not planning much on 'leather armor'. I am planning on rawhide torso, so it's hard. Maybe sleeveless. Then add forearm and hand protection with leg protection and you are good to go. Are you familiar with Buff Coats? No Sir, I am not. Please do share your knowledge😄 I will try to search too. But a simple lay-man's definition would be nice.
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AndiTheBarvarian
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Post by AndiTheBarvarian on Nov 24, 2016 8:22:25 GMT
Buff coats, interesting!
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Post by Deleted on Nov 24, 2016 8:52:45 GMT
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Post by Timo Nieminen on Nov 24, 2016 10:35:09 GMT
I make leather armor and I must say, 11-12 ounce leather is very impact resistant and its hard to cut even if its not boiled. Its not hard to guess why it was never used. Leather was more expensive in the middle ages, metal armor was more effective and Gambeson is more flexible. Impact resistance makes leather nice for modern sporting armour. Not very effective against arrows - Williams, "The Knight and the Blast Furnace", quotes 30J as sufficient energy for an arrow to defeat buff leather (5mm thick; 12-13oz). Better against cuts, almost as effective as 16 layers of linen (70J to defeat vs 80J). Rawhide is better; according to books.google.com.au/books?id=HjOUBQAAQBAJ&pg=PA71&lpg=PA71 it's over twice as protective as leather, and boiled rawhide (done right) is about twice as good again. Assuming the measurements are sound, it's easy see why rawhide armour was so common, and leather was not. Indian/Persian hide shields certainly work well (but then, they're often over 1cm in thickness).
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Post by MOK on Nov 24, 2016 15:05:36 GMT
Another brief note, "boiled" rawhide/leather shouldn't be literally boiled, as that would make it too hard and brittle. The old French cuir bouilli from which the modern English phrase is derived doesn't actually mean boiled but cooked.
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Post by themagicalmark on Nov 24, 2016 16:53:48 GMT
Rawhide is better; according to books.google.com.au/books?id=HjOUBQAAQBAJ&pg=PA71&lpg=PA71 it's over twice as protective as leather, and boiled rawhide (done right) is about twice as good again. Assuming the measurements are sound, it's easy see why rawhide armour was so common, and leather was not. Indian/Persian hide shields certainly work well (but then, they're often over 1cm in thickness). Very true, given they lined shields with rawhide as well.
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Post by themagicalmark on Nov 24, 2016 17:25:55 GMT
I make leather armor and I must say, 11-12 ounce leather is very impact resistant and its hard to cut even if its not boiled. Its not hard to guess why it was never used. Leather was more expensive in the middle ages, metal armor was more effective and Gambeson is more flexible. Sometimes I read about xxx ounce leather, but I can't imagine how heavy an armor then would be. What would be the overall weight of such a leather coat like a half sleeve mail? So for a rudimentary test I just weighed parts I'm making a cuirass of sorts out of, as well as some bracers. They totaled around 4.4 pounds. So not very heavy compared to mail. Obviously that's not the same amount of coverage as half sleeve mail but i'd have to have around 4-5 times the amount of stuff i did weigh to get close to how heavy the mail would be, which is about 18-30 pounds based on mail offered by kultofathena.com
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Post by Deleted on Nov 24, 2016 19:23:26 GMT
Considering the base layer I am planning on, a leather armor could add styles (even fantasy ones) and still make good armor.
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Post by Deleted on Nov 25, 2016 12:07:34 GMT
Time to add another angle to the discussion: helmets. Not the medieval type helms. Although knowledge on them is appreciated. I am talking more modern material helmets. DevTac is an evolutionary brand in this regard. However, I am talking more options like lighter helmets. Because everyone knows that in a gun fight, people are aiming for head shots. That only happens in Sniper Missions or in games and movies.
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Ifrit
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Post by Ifrit on Nov 26, 2016 1:47:10 GMT
What's your thoughts on ballistic masks in combination with a helmet?
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