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Post by themagicalmark on Apr 28, 2016 18:23:51 GMT
Keep in mind that threads then were all done by blacksmiths, not by standardized drill and tap equipment. They could have easily had only a few twists to unscrew a pommel. As far as why, in armor the logical assumption is that it would be thrown at the head to cause a distraction and a loud impact with more concussive force than you might imagine esp. against the face plate. If you follow up quickly you can exploit the moment. That actually makes a lot of sence
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Post by Deleted on Apr 28, 2016 18:30:43 GMT
A thrown object to create a momentary distraction before immediately entering in and striking decisively before the opponent recovers from the recoil? Sure, I can totally see that.
Twisting off a pommel, chambering the throw and throwing it at someone from far enough away that they don't just bat your spear aside and stick you, yet close enough that you can close distance and capitalize on the brief distraction still seems outlandish. Gently lobbing the thing definitely won't accomplish anything, there would need to be some oomph behind it. I just can't see it happening, but stranger things have been done
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ChrisA
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Post by ChrisA on Apr 28, 2016 19:21:11 GMT
How do you not get run through when shifting spear and sword to the one arm, as shown, twisting off the pommel, even assuming one or two turns to do so, winding up and throw, accurately, with an opponent about to cleave your skull? In that amount of time even an unskilled opponent has the time to close quite a distance and strike...several times. Seems really silly. As said, why not just carry a rock?
Put me in the disbeliever party.
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Post by RicWilly on Apr 28, 2016 19:40:49 GMT
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Post by Cosmoline on Apr 29, 2016 0:21:05 GMT
Well assuming this is in a judicial dueling ring, it's likely larger rocks and anything that could be an additional improvised weapon has been removed ahead of time. Otherwise yeah rocks are great and *highly* underrated as weapons these days. But yeah I also have a problem with the idea of tucking sword and spear under your left arm like that. I think he may actually be standing behind a planted spear, prepared to use it as a vertical block if an attack is made. We see a similar vertical guard here: commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Ms._KK5013_01r.jpgAnd here: commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Ms._KK5013_04v.jpgWhen you're doing harnessfetchen, the vulnerabilities are different. Cuts do basically nothing. So you're really worried about stabs to vulnerable bits and percussive impacts.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 29, 2016 1:45:27 GMT
commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Ms._KK5013_04v.jpg is very interesting - I've got a reinforced vertical block, I wonder if he's bracing the spear haft with the flat of his blade there to keep the opponent from collapsing his defense inwards to create an opening to stab with? The haft would also make a nice guide to direct his counter thrust and you could easily accomplish both from that setup.
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Post by Deleted on May 11, 2016 0:24:22 GMT
With all due respect for the thought you've obviously put into this, wouldn't it be more expeditious to pick up and throw a plain old rock? LOL! Although i am not very well versed in European medieval weaponry, i have more than enough exposure to Asian arts to know this. Asian armor was generally much less METAL than plate, since Asia has a general trend of doing things the difficult way. Instead of Standing fully protected, they preferred freedom of movement and maneuverability. The little Armor they had was Bamboo, Straw and other padding and quite less of Metal came until later(Thai people improvised first in little armoring, but later developed an ingenious metal armor system that offered better protection, not as high as plate armor, and movement). BUT throwing a POMMEL? C'mon! I agree that pommels can be very dense and can cause blunt trauma, throwing a pommel requires at best 4-5 seconds to load to throw with enough force to cause enough resonating factor to muddle up a plated knight. Not to mention that was if it was loosened beforehand and that Plate Armor would not only cause lesser momentum in even a baseball pitch, but also require force to overcome the armor and Pommel weight, while balancing the spear and sword. Better to throw a sword and skewer with a spear. BUT then what if the POMMELS were secretly planted with EXPLOSIVES? Now that I would throw!
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Post by Marthor on May 11, 2016 2:13:46 GMT
Perhaps it was a teacher's aide to weed out students who lacked common sense or discover who isn't studious in their homework?
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Post by Deleted on May 11, 2016 2:57:44 GMT
Perhaps it was a teacher's aide to weed out students who lacked common sense or discover who isn't studious in their homework? That teacher had a sick sense of testing out students, considering he put a trick in something that was to be read generations later. Not to mention was intended as a manual?
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Post by Deleted on May 11, 2016 11:11:40 GMT
Probably the Renaissance equivalent of garbage like
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Post by MOK on May 11, 2016 11:32:45 GMT
OMG, it's like I'm back in high school reading Black Belt again...
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Post by Deleted on May 11, 2016 12:50:25 GMT
The one weird judicial dueling trick THEY don't want you to know!
Fechtmeisters HATE him!
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Post by hussar on May 11, 2016 13:51:04 GMT
While i believe this to be an example of medieval humour you could possibly use interrupted threads to make pommel faster to remove but that would be a !@#$ of a stretch
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Post by Cosmoline on May 11, 2016 21:26:59 GMT
Say what you will, but I'm keeping spare pommels in my braise.
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Post by Deleted on May 11, 2016 23:35:59 GMT
Do you have to reattach each one before you unscrew and throw it? maybe you could keep them in a sack? Attachments:
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Post by MOK on May 12, 2016 0:03:11 GMT
Or, hey, you could use hollow pommels packed with gunpowder. Use the friction from unscrewing it to light a short fuse.
PINEAPPLE SURPRISE!
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Post by Marthor on May 12, 2016 1:37:21 GMT
Skall actually did a video where he showed how long it would take to actually unscrew a threaded pommel (may be the one you linked, but I'm not in a position to watch it to confirm); a few seconds or so, if memory serves, but that's a long ass time where you're telegraphing exactly what you're doing. Three shall be the number of the counting, and the number of the counting shall be three. Then thou lobbest the pommel at thine enemy who has been naughty in thine sight.
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Post by aussie-rabbit on May 14, 2016 10:26:00 GMT
The problem I see with this the rest on your sword might come flying apart without the pommel on it. Also if the pommel was on tight like it should be it would be very hard to unscrew. " Pax! I call Pax, my pommel will not unscrew!" " Valet hand me my morning star that I may pummel your pommel! "
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Post by Cosmoline on May 15, 2016 4:13:35 GMT
See, you get rid of the pommel, take your longsword in vom tag, and then perform a strong zorn ort. Without the pommel, the sword will FLY off the grip, launching into your stunned foe!
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Post by Deleted on May 15, 2016 12:40:15 GMT
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