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Post by metinemre on Mar 6, 2016 5:59:59 GMT
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Post by Kiyoshi on Mar 6, 2016 7:02:11 GMT
I personally really dislike kaneie (aka kurin swords). I dislike their feel especially. On the no-hi models, the blade is wide like a mat cutter and none that I have seen have geometric yokote despite costing so much and I don't see a reason for that. On that specific sword, I don't like the gloss saya since the paint chips easy and fingerprints will show as well. The blade has meh geometry and a counter polished kissaki. The hi looks like it has a good termination though. I'd prefer cotton over synthetic silk for ito.
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Post by whitefeathers on Mar 6, 2016 14:26:22 GMT
Ugh, synthetic silk ito is so slippery to me. I like real silk.
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Post by skane on Mar 6, 2016 18:18:18 GMT
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Post by Jussi Ekholm on Mar 6, 2016 18:53:43 GMT
I reviewed one few years ago. Could be that Huawei, I'm not sure but it comes from a Chinese forge and ain't Kaneie. Very light and nimble sword, I had the no-hi version and it was light as feather.
I think it was a very good sword and I cut with it quite much. I had to sharpen it few times, tsuba shifted a bit and got crooked as tsuba & tsuka didn't fit perfectly in the end but I did put it through a bunch of quite stressful cutting. I accidentally dented the kissaki quite a bit as I hit on the pallet that I used as my stand for rolled up newspapers.
In my opinion the one I had was quite good value for the money.
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Post by Kiyoshi on Mar 6, 2016 20:41:47 GMT
Huh, now that you mention it, it doesn't look like a kaneie. The batto line is supposed to be a kaneie line... So did kaneie get cheap(er) or is that not really a batto line? I feel that it is the first as they have a kaneie looking wakizashi to match. Since they use pre-made fittings and fit the tsuka to the fittings, it makes sense that they would look the same with the same fittings. It also isn't the only sword with that same fittings set and they all look about the same.
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Post by metinemre on Mar 6, 2016 21:12:19 GMT
This is a kaneie. It is the eu website for it.
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Post by Kiyoshi on Mar 6, 2016 21:43:30 GMT
I know, almost everything TSW sells is kaneie. Kaneie is a company though, not a forge. If I understood correctly, most of kaneie stuff comes from Fred Chen. If they sourced the lower end stuff from elsewhere, it wouldn't "look" like a kaneie even if it is distributed by their retailers and therefore technically a kaneie.
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Post by Jussi Ekholm on Mar 6, 2016 22:18:45 GMT
The Samurai Workshop is a Kaneie EU representative.
That being said their 299/249 Batto line is not Kaneie the 399 Batto line is 1060 TH Kaneie.
You can also see they have couple Skyjiro models in inventory, as well as Bugei. I don't think they currently have Huanuo but they had couple models a while ago.
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Post by Kiyoshi on Mar 6, 2016 23:27:59 GMT
From what I understand kaneie gets some of their fittings and their nicer blades from Fred Chen. Kaneie doesn't make the swords themselves. TSW primarily sells kaneie and their non kaneie are labeled by manufacturer (ie, bugei listed under bugei, Ron Chen under Ron Chen, etc). Has TSW directly stated that their batto line wasn't kaneie?
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Post by Jussi Ekholm on Mar 7, 2016 0:49:05 GMT
I got the one from 2013 Batto line, back then Kaneie didn't yet have their 1060 TH series out in Europe. I changed emails with Jeffrey about these back then and by the tone I deducted that were not from Kaneie but from a tryout with a new forge. Seeing the link to Aliexpress makes it pretty convincing that they could be made by Huawei. I'm not sure if any public announcement has been made who makes these swords. I haven't been that up to date with production sword history anymore but I think Kaneie was founded in early 2000's. Huanuo has been around since early 1990's I guess. Can't remember if those who established Kaneie were former Huanuo personnel. I think it might be written out in some thread back in the day. Both are located in Shanghai I think. Not knowing if they are doing stuff together or not. I thought they were both separate factories, at least that was my assumption. Kaneie: www.k-sword.com/Huanuo: www.huanuosword.com/As crazy as it seems I find it funny that we are having lots and lots of problems finding out who makes what and what is made in where (forge "addresses" going to candy shops etc.). Heck there seems to be so much secrecy on the Chinese made production sword scene it's easier to find out who was the smith and where in Japan he made the sword 500 years ago than to find the answer to where and by whom your Chinese made sword that you got last month was made. *EDIT* Forgot to add that Tomoe and Hanabira from Okuden at TSW are Skyjiro, as I mentioned the brand earlier. I have no idea who supplies the Skyjiro swords.
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Post by Kiyoshi on Mar 7, 2016 1:39:51 GMT
Kaneie isn't really just kaneie anymore. They are a "new forge" named kurin swords now, or at least they are sometimes. They also do business with nine circles. It used to be on TSW that they changed their name to start over due to their business relationships or something of that nature. I don't know if it is anymore though. From what I've gathered from various emails and forums is that kaneie is a shanghai company that assembles swords but does not make them. They use Japanese parts on some swords some of the time (and their non Japanese parts are made to look like Japanese parts but aren't) so they can claim they use Japanese techniques. Their blades don't appear to be wholly stone polished as they say as the one I had had faint circular buff marks on it and the hamon appeared to be acid enhanced. They do a good job at looking like Japanese iaito but don't feel like them one bit (at least the yama no kumo didn't). Also, the higher end kaneie blades look pretty darn close to Fred Chen blades.
Aside from the feather habaki, what makes you say skyjiro? I've seen others that have that habaki, even ebay swords have it.
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Post by metinemre on Mar 7, 2016 1:56:43 GMT
Wow very good information guys, thank you very much. I am really glad that i started this topic.
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Post by skane on Mar 7, 2016 5:08:03 GMT
Huh, now that you mention it, it doesn't look like a kaneie. The batto line is supposed to be a kaneie line... So did kaneie get cheap(er) or is that not really a batto line? I feel that it is the first as they have a kaneie looking wakizashi to match. Since they use pre-made fittings and fit the tsuka to the fittings, it makes sense that they would look the same with the same fittings. It also isn't the only sword with that same fittings set and they all look about the same. The info on the tsw page says it's a prototype for batto. 9260 blade. Looks a lot like the Huawei... I have a couple of those $200 models. Koshirae and specs match the Huawei (tsuba, fuchi, kashira, menuki, habaki, saya). Even the blade lines and hi termination match the Huawei.
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Post by Kiyoshi on Mar 7, 2016 5:28:13 GMT
But what I'm trying to say is that kaneie isn't really a forge like we think of. Kaneie (and kurin swords) are part of Shanghai Shendan (Yushi?) International Trade company. They are the guys who order stuff, brand it, and resell it under the Kaneie brand name. Huawei is the same (albiet on a much smaller scale), they get stuff from factories, have it assembled, and resell it. If kaneie got cheaper, they could easily get the same blades, same fittings, etc, that huawei does from the same factory and call it a Kaneie. Neither kaneie nor huawei actually "make" swords to my understanding, they just are sellers of swords. It would appear, based on others experiences and the way the blades are made, that the lower end kaneie are done via the same fittings/blades that eBay "forges" use and the higher end use Fred Chen stuff (who is also in Shanghai). Kaneie also works to get some stuff, be it blades or fittings, from Japan to use on some of their swords. The thing is that we never really see those except for some kaneie that come with Japanese ito. Just about everything else we get commercially comes with Chinese only materials save the occasional ito. The batto line on CAS Iberia might be a CAS Iberia and re-seller exclusive, hence why you see different batto line swords on TSW. Some of this is speculation obviously, but it seems reasonable to me. Edit: Picture of their building from their website.
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Post by danmasamori on Mar 7, 2016 13:09:36 GMT
"Kurin" is just the brand name Nine Circles uses for their shinken, sourced through the same forge as Kaneie.
I'm not sure where the rumor that Huanuo makes Kaneie/Kurin came from. They really aren't similar whatsoever in overall quality, geometry and polish, I'ved owned several from both.
Huanuo's stone polished folded and tama are the nicest production blades I've owned.
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Post by Kiyoshi on Mar 7, 2016 18:10:03 GMT
Kurin and kaneie are the same. TSW uses this name as well. It isn't a situation where they source form the same forge but instead a company name change. This is from TSW: " Some of you may remember the name Kaneie as the brand of our swords. Together with the forge and another leading sword dealer, we have decided to continue these swords under the brand name Kurin swords. Basically, nothing will change except for the name. Needless to say, the quality and historical accuracy will always remain the top priority for us."
This is in addition to the old kurin swords info page on TSW (which you can only veiw in google's website preview as they have edited this information) "Information about Kurin swords previously produced under the name Kaneie Swords, the Japanese sword - katana, iaito and wakizashi forge based in Shanghai."
They are one in the same. The rest of the page had something about previous history and wanting to start over or some such.
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Post by Jussi Ekholm on Mar 8, 2016 21:44:09 GMT
Skyjiro models have the same specs that Tomoe and Hanabira at Samurai Workshop, they are the 2,5 shaku models. www.skyjiroforge.com/new-domoe-commas-2016-p-16.html?zenid=52hktel1o1r9oht92fgqn7r9v6www.skyjiroforge.com/hanabira-flower-petals-2016-p-15.html?zenid=52hktel1o1r9oht92fgqn7r9v6Nine Circles Tatsujin tameshigiri sword is Skyjiro Ancient Warrior: www.skyjiroforge.com/ancient-iron-warrior-wide-blade-cutter-p-11.htmlIt's very understandable that sword vendors are quite secretive of the fact who makes their swords. That is their main job or side job and people need money to live. Of course vendors are making their own profit in order to survive. The thing is that in modern world it's so easy to contact people in foreign countries that you can quite easily be in contact with the source or at least near the source. Don't know how much stuff is in inventory and how much is being drop shipped for average dealer for example. Being a production sword vendor is tough and I appreciate those who do it. I've seen couple "behind the scenes" glimpses over the years and I don't want to get into that business even though I've had few chances to step in. For example Finnish taxation and high shipping costs make competing with other European vendors pretty much impossible and our domestic market is too small to support another sword dealer (as we have couple small companies already).
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Post by Kiyoshi on Mar 9, 2016 4:49:40 GMT
That does indeed look convincing. I knew nine circles sold the "custom" skyjiro as tatsujin swords. I wonder why TSW never mentions that a few of their swords are not kurin. They made note to separate other brands form the usual kurin, so perhaps it is because these are not as notable? Either way, good catch.
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Post by metinemre on Mar 9, 2016 5:00:02 GMT
Guys thanks for your input, You definitely saved me from wasting money thinking all their stuff is kaneie.
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