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Post by Jeffrey Ching on Mar 9, 2016 20:46:27 GMT
...thinking all their stuff is kaneie. You know, rather than to feed all of this internet speculation, one could have also contacted me. I'm kinda hurt with all of this speaking of secrecy and people who have actually done business with me, know that I'm not a dishonest person. I would have glady explained you the differences between the Kaneie ranges and other ranges as listed on our website. The batto katana were always an exclusive product of The Samurai Workshop. However, after CAS Iberia started selling Kaneie in the USA. They asked whether it was ok to use the same names for the products ranges. In this confusion, the Kaneie 1060 series were dubbed batto, which seems to be nothing but a horrible mistake as they are two completely different ranges. Even worse, the terms Menkyo, Gokui, Okuden & Batto were never exclusive to Kaneie but to The Samurai Workshop. Then, with CAS as a new player that all changed. The Batto musashino as mentioned earlier is nothing but a test sample to verify the quality of some of the forges out there. The original batto shinken katana are of a completely different quality level and can in no way be compared with a random ebay sword.
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Post by Kiyoshi on Mar 9, 2016 21:56:04 GMT
...thinking all their stuff is kaneie. You know, rather than to feed all of this internet speculation, one could have also contacted me. I'm kinda hurt with all of this speaking of secrecy and people who have actually done business with me, know that I'm not a dishonest person. I would have glady explained you the differences between the Kaneie ranges and other ranges as listed on our website. I'll admit, I've had contact with you before and you were pretty honest. Our communication ended up dropping off for some reason or another, but that's neither here nor there. Instead, I'd like to ask a few questions on behalf of all of us. Some of your swords look like longquan and skyjiro swords, is this because, like eBay vendors, you get your lower cost blades from factories in longquan and skyjiro or another reason? Do you know what forges kaneie gets their blade and fittings from? The names, batto, okuden, gokui, are representations of quality level/intent of use and are not kaneie only sword but instead contain swords from various places with the categories in mind, is this correct? I believe a lot of confusion came from your advertisement of kurin/kaneie (and the fact the kaneie links to your website to buy their swords from) and not much else. It appeared that your swords, not labeled something else, were all kaneie. They are also the only sword producing company you have in the "About" section of your website. Because of all of that, I'm sure many people got the impression that you were selling almost exclusively kaneie swords. It is similar to how some people believed kaneie sold swords with all Japanese fittings because they advertised that some of them were made with them (which they were, just... not very many. The majority were just ito if anything at all). I think if we cleared this up, people would be less likely to feel deceived.
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Post by metinemre on Mar 9, 2016 22:06:38 GMT
...thinking all their stuff is kaneie. You know, rather than to feed all of this internet speculation, one could have also contacted me. I'm kinda hurt with all of this speaking of secrecy and people who have actually done business with me, know that I'm not a dishonest person. I would have glady explained you the differences between the Kaneie ranges and other ranges as listed on our website. The batto katana were always an exclusive product of The Samurai Workshop. However, after CAS Iberia started selling Kaneie in the USA. They asked whether it was ok to use the same names for the products ranges. In this confusion, the Kaneie 1060 series were dubbed batto, which seems to be nothing but a horrible mistake as they are two completely different ranges. Even worse, the terms Menkyo, Gokui, Okuden & Batto were never exclusive to Kaneie but to The Samurai Workshop. Then, with CAS as a new player that all changed. The Batto musashino as mentioned earlier is nothing but a test sample to verify the quality of some of the forges out there. The original batto shinken katana are of a completely different quality level and can in no way be compared with a random ebay sword. I don`t know why you only quoted half of my sentence... i don`t think anyone thinks of you as dishonest or anyone called you dishonest. I am sorry but i could not even find the name kaneie on the web site, then i found out kaneie is called kurin and now and all the USA vendors somehow did or trying to get rid of their kaneie stocks with massive discounts. It is the industry that is dishonest to be honest with you, and we are all trying to save our hard earned cash from wrong purchases. Yes i was thinking batto line on your web site were kaneie until i got warned here. But that is hardly my fault or would be any other customer`s fault. Using/letting batto name for kaneie and then some other line is a terrible confusing mistake and who ever is responsible from this mistake needs to clarify this on the/their web site. Not here only. You really need to inform/notify people that your batto line is something else but not kaneie/kurin. Since you are the kaneie now kurin EU distributor everyone will think they are kaneie products. Your web site needs more details on the products my friend. Titles,descriptions etc. which one is what brand which one comes from where etc. definitely more details to prevent confusions. +1 to what Kiyoshi said. i searched for kaneie got directed to your site and thought all you have is kaneie...
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Post by metinemre on Mar 9, 2016 22:21:01 GMT
The Batto musashino as mentioned earlier is nothing but a test sample to verify the quality of some of the forges out there. The original batto shinken katana are of a completely different quality level and can in no way be compared with a random ebay sword. Which forge makes the new batto line? Are all katanas and wakis in different lines(batto,okuden,gukoi) coming from the same forge? In batto line, considering they are priced same\similar and most of the fittings and blades look almost the same how can we be assured they aren`t coming from the same forges as the ebay vendors? There were two kurin/kaneie katanas under batto line now they are gone. I am assuming to end the confusion. Do you have any kurin/kaneie stuff in stock? Where are they at your website? Maybe kurin/kaneie should be all under a separate link just like bugei you have to prevent any future confusions to potential customers. I already emailed you to find out the shipping price on a katana and got my answer and i was ready to pull the trigger to get one because i rather spend my money on a respectable/trusted web site than an ebay vendor. However now i am confused with the lack of information and ofc information that people gave. So i need you to tell us more about where you supply your blades and fittings so i can spend my money.
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Post by Jeffrey Ching on Mar 10, 2016 9:15:55 GMT
KiyoshiGlad that we can move forward. Should I ever forget to respond to an email, please don't hesitate to send me a reminder. I get loads of emails and I'm only human :) With the problems surrounding Kaneie, I had to look around to find something to fill that gap. I cannot go into the details of the internal problems but there's a reason why the Kaneie disappeared overnight. Anyway, the forge is not to be named (they don't deal with private persons anyway) and they have sourced their fittings in Japan. The Skyjiro looking stuff is indeed Skyjiro and some of the Longquan looking stuff is indeed Longquan stuff. Honestly I must say that both aren't up to my quality standards... You are correct that the website has become unclear what product belongs to which brand. Before, we did work exclusively with Kaneie but after the downfall, everything changed. metinemreI didn't partially quote you to take things out of context. For me, there's only one way to go from 'thinking' into 'knowing' and that is going to the source itself. Anyway, absolutely no hard feelings for me. The fittings used on the original batto shinken and batto wakizashi are publicly available fittings from Longquan so you'll definitely will see them more often on swords made in that region. We decided to use these to be able to create a cheaper product. Basic Japanese fittings can easily cost 40-50 dollars and another 40 dollars for the tsuba. The batto and batto wakizashi are made by a longquan forge under tight supervision. Here in Europe, they're almost exclusively used by dojo for serious tameshigiri. I believe there should be a review done by Jussi somewhere, I hope that will make things a bit more clear on whether they are 'ebay katana'. I still have some of the old Kaneie swords left so if you're interested, just shoot me an email.
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Post by Kiyoshi on Mar 10, 2016 11:32:02 GMT
Eh, it's probably better that our emails dropped off. I ended up getting a high end kaneie from a local place and absolutely did not like it. It was the yama no kumo. I didn't like the mat cutter blade style, the lack of geometric kissaki, the tsuka core was exposed, and the tsuka was thick for my taste. Return shipping on that would have been a hole in my wallet I'd rather not have had, lol.
$40 is pretty cheap for a tsuba too. I know a lot of the fittings I like are upwards of $100 (examples are the higo ishime f/k, nanako tsuba, the sakura daisho tsuba on your website). Are the fittings they sourced those that you'd see on production iaito? Kaneie had ones that were similar to, but not the same as, those found on stuff from tozando. However, when compared to my tozando iaito, the fittings were taller and a tad wider.
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Post by Jeffrey Ching on Mar 10, 2016 12:22:01 GMT
I've heard several stories about the CAS Kaneie models being of lower quality than what I am used to... I'm not what happened there but that's all passed now. A small side note on the geometric kissaki, this is only possible if the gasane is high enough. A blade with a sakigasane of 3.5mm will make it nearly impossible to add a geometric yokote.
As for $40 for a tsuba or fuchigashira; back in the days when Kaneie was going full force, we'd order minimum 100 pieces per set, which gives you a different price than the 100+ you would pay as an end-user :) Usually fuchigashira exist in multiple types, one standard Japanese sized of around 39mm height fuchi and ones of 42mm. The latter are specially made for the so-called dotanuki style iaito blades, which are more wide than normal blades.
It's really a shame that things turned out so crappy. Kaneie had all the ingredients to become succesful but bad management messed it up big time :)
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Post by Kiyoshi on Mar 10, 2016 13:12:38 GMT
For me, a geometric yokote on a sharp blade is a must. It feels weird to not have one when doing iaido. I have a couple of blades with them and I'm so used to it. The product page for the yama no kumo put it at around 5mm which is the same as a sword I have with one. Even then, if the blade was a little wider but had a smaller sakihaba (which I would prefer anyway) just for that one feature, I would enjoy it. Kaneie did have just about everything it needed but I've heard stories about how the uppers dealt with other companies, lol. I've also noticed you seem to have added a kurin swords logo to your kurin swords, that is pretty awesome of you to attend to that so quickly. Hopefully that will clear up any future misunderstandings. If you ever stock a sword more towards the blade style I prefer, I'll be sure to put some money aside until I can afford it. I'll also happily recommend you to anyone who would benefit from one of your products. I have a lot of respect for those with good customer service.
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Post by metinemre on Mar 10, 2016 15:46:54 GMT
metinemre I didn't partially quote you to take things out of context. For me, there's only one way to go from 'thinking' into 'knowing' and that is going to the source itself. Anyway, absolutely no hard feelings for me. Jeffrey Thanks for the clarification. That makes a lot of things clear for us, i still suggest that you should have different sections for each brand you sell in the future, Not under batt-okuden-gokui etc but just like bugei,skyjiro,kanei/kurin separate links etc. Because a lot of people that aren`t reading these posts can still be confused. Now the second thing is your shipping cost to USA is too much you need to find a way to drop it to $50-60 if you can. Or do free shipping over certain amount. 3rd request is about wakizashi`s. If you had a wakizashi 6-7inch handle and 18-20`` blade i would buy it right now. Wakizashi you have are very short blades for my taste. After a thorough research i noticed that market really lacks on wakizashi choices besides the Hanwei options. Someone needs to fill the gap. Also daisho sets in batto collection with discounted price maybe or free shipping? Cheers
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Post by LG Martial Arts on Mar 11, 2016 1:15:15 GMT
From my communications in the past with Jeffrey Ching, he's been very straightforward and honest. Now in respect to the CAS/Kaneie fallout, all I can say is that I sold several of them on sale when CAS broke ties with Kaneie. The fit and finish on the swords were great, much better than most other "production" katanas I've held, used, or sold, and was saddened when I heard of the split between the companies. In any case, Jeffrey has a solid reputation, and I wouldn't hesitate to recommend anyone to buy from him.
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Post by Jeffrey Ching on Mar 11, 2016 19:19:16 GMT
Thanks Luis, your words are far too kind :) metinemreThe geometry of the batto wakizashi are an exact copy of several antique wakizashi. This is because they are purely targeted at several kenjutsu ryuha who are working with daisho. They have specifically asked me for such mid-edo geometry. Many things should be reconfigured on our website but as with many things, it's difficult to find the time for that. Anyway I'll definitely take your feedback with me for the next update. It may not be obvious from the website but I am in first place a sword craftsman. The selling of the goods has always been a secondary thing for us. :)
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Post by metinemre on Mar 12, 2016 0:41:28 GMT
Thanks Luis, your words are far too kind :) metinemre The geometry of the batto wakizashi are an exact copy of several antique wakizashi. This is because they are purely targeted at several kenjutsu ryuha who are working with daisho. They have specifically asked me for such mid-edo geometry. Many things should be reconfigured on our website but as with many things, it's difficult to find the time for that. Anyway I'll definitely take your feedback with me for the next update. It may not be obvious from the website but I am in first place a sword craftsman. The selling of the goods has always been a secondary thing for us. :) Jeffrey since your pricing says inc. vat21% when i move the mouse on top of the prices. Do we get non vat 21% less pricing when you ship to USA? What are the chances to get a wakizashi line with longer blade and tsuka?
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Post by Jeffrey Ching on Mar 13, 2016 18:47:45 GMT
VAT is indeed only for EU residents but I'm afraid that custom wakizashi are not something we will focus on any time soon. Customizations on the koshirae are possible but note that my hourly rate is a bit on the high side (not really for budget swords :) )
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