Uhlan
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Posts: 3,121
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Post by Uhlan on Jan 24, 2016 17:40:05 GMT
I want a scabbard for a M1854 blade I have. I remember the Russian ?? was excellent? Another thing: I have given up on de-snaking the snake pit, but I checked on EC's Imp. Guard Grenadier a Cheval and compared it with the universal version thereoff. The EC has a large grenade with short fat flames. The Uni. has a smaller grenade with long and thin flames. The EC has no decoration on the underside. The Universal has. I cannot check the WE. version. KOA has only the WE - BG blades. Somehow Mr. Guinhut went off the reservation with his Grenadier. I checked for differences between the WE and EC versions of the BG sabres, but cannot find any. Even that typical Indian plastic looking grip leather seems the same.
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Post by Dave Kelly on Jan 24, 2016 17:53:47 GMT
Going out to shovel snow, but pulled my WE off the shelf. The 7 six year old WE looks most like the EC. Some of the detail work on the hilt is missing, but they size up best. Who's copying who?
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Uhlan
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Post by Uhlan on Jan 24, 2016 18:07:21 GMT
Happy shovelling.
,,If you want yer snake pit, you can keep yer snake pit''.
Thank you for the effort checking it out.
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Post by Afoo on Jan 24, 2016 18:15:00 GMT
Speaking of using Universal etc. for scabbards, I'm thinking of picking up one of these (http://www.kultofathena.com/product.asp?item=USS129&name=British+Royal+Navy+Dress+Saber) for the scabbard, as I just purchased an original with a weak and somewhat damaged scabbard. I'll probably try to dump the actual sword off on someone, because the KOA stats make it sound like a crowbar. joesalter.ca/products/royal-canadian-navy-sword-scabbardWhy not try this? The Universal scabbards are bit over built. I have their hussar sword. The sword is 1065g, and the Scabbard is 982g! Aesthetically its not bad from afar, but its not 100% accurate, at least on the ones I have owned. I am lumping my exprience with CS swords in here too since I assume they come from a similar place
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Uhlan
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Posts: 3,121
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Post by Uhlan on Jan 24, 2016 18:51:31 GMT
Yeah, CS is mainly upgraded Windlass and the Gim I suspect is sourced from Hanwei. Dynasty Forge was the source for the CS French sabre I think.
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Post by Dave Kelly on Jan 24, 2016 19:18:45 GMT
Yeah, CS is mainly upgraded Windlass and the Gim I suspect is sourced from Hanwei. Dynasty Forge was the source for the CS French sabre I think. Correct on Dynasty Forge. The sabre is still posted on their own site for direct sale.
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Post by Jayhawk on Jan 24, 2016 19:34:28 GMT
Yep...that's my son's sabre. Didn't realize CS used Dynasty Forge as well. Maybe that explains why it's such a nice sword.
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Uhlan
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Posts: 3,121
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Post by Uhlan on Jan 24, 2016 20:37:12 GMT
Thinking about CS. Thinking about EC.
I bet that EC just buys, just like CS does. EC buys from WE if the stuff is good. Universal has a better offer, EC takes it. EC places special orders just like IronGate Armoury, if Guinhut thinks the price is right, like with the flexible blades.
Darn. I start again.
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Post by aronk on Jan 24, 2016 22:25:12 GMT
Speaking of using Universal etc. for scabbards, I'm thinking of picking up one of these (http://www.kultofathena.com/product.asp?item=USS129&name=British+Royal+Navy+Dress+Saber) for the scabbard, as I just purchased an original with a weak and somewhat damaged scabbard. I'll probably try to dump the actual sword off on someone, because the KOA stats make it sound like a crowbar. joesalter.ca/products/royal-canadian-navy-sword-scabbardWhy not try this? The Universal scabbards are bit over built. I have their hussar sword. The sword is 1065g, and the Scabbard is 982g! Aesthetically its not bad from afar, but its not 100% accurate, at least on the ones I have owned. I am lumping my exprience with CS swords in here too since I assume they come from a similar place Very nice! Thanks Afoo!
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Uhlan
Member
Posts: 3,121
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Post by Uhlan on Jan 25, 2016 14:31:22 GMT
Compared the WE and Uni versions of the ,,Chasseur a Cheval'' with the EC version. KOA numbers are notoriously bad.
We. Overall Length: 38 5/8'' Blade: 33 1/4'' Blade: 1095 High Carbon Steel Weight: 1 lb 15.6 oz Edge: Unsharpened P.O.B.: 7'' Thickness: 7.6 mm - 2.3 mm Width: 30.4 mm Grip Length: 3 3/4'' Pommel: Peened
uni.
Overall Length: 38 3/8'' Blade: 33'' Blade: EN9 High Carbon Steel Weight: 2 lb 2.8 oz Edge: Unsharpened P.O.B.: 8'' Thickness: 7.3 mm - 3.7 mm Width: 30.5 mm Grip Length: 3 3/4'' Pommel: Peened
My EC version has a blade of 8mm thick at the guard, but on the langets 7.6 and 3.7 mm at 1" from the tip and 2.3 mm at the very tip. The weight is 2 lb 2.886 oz. Length is 85 cm or 33.5" and a POB of 21 cm or 8.26".
When we consider the weight to be the deciding factor, for it is less likely to be screwed up, I should say EC used Uni for this sabre. If I were to go blind on the KOA numbers I would have bought the WE version. With that POB of 8.26" it is no wonder Pino found the Uni to behave like a small Cavalry sabre.
Train d'Artillery.
KOA numbers for WE.
Overall Length: 43 1/2'' Blade: 37 1/4'' Blade: 1095 High Carbon Steel Weight: 2 lb 7.9 oz Edge: Unsharpened P.O.B.: 6 3/4'' or 6.19" Thickness: 6.8 mm - 2.7 mm Width: 31.3 mm Grip Length: 4 3/4'' Pommel: Peened
The EC.
Blade length: 94.5 cm or 37.2". Weight: 1130 grams or 2 lb and 7.86 oz. Thick: 7 mm to 2.7 mm at 1" from the tip. Width: 31.8 mm. POB: 16 cm or 6.3".
Again looking at the weight which is less likely to get srewed up, I'd say this one might be WE. The rest of the numbers fit in rather well too. EC switched suppliers here. Also, as the French are very chauvinistic, nationalistic, patriotic and/or plain idiotic, Mr. Guinhut would not sell many sabres to his Napoleon adoring clients if they knew them to be India made. So he does the smoke screen thing to hush up the Indian origin of his merchandise. Because he does not want foreign mud crawlers, ah..clients, like me or Dave, to blabber about WE in the context of EC on the interwebs, he blows smoke. Chech blades, no WE is ever used, etc.
Oooor EC GOT a Czech source, made Uni an offer, Uni was slow to take the bait. WE TOOK the bait and are now doing the American side of the enterprise, paying EC for the privilege of being sole supplier and going to the matrasses on Uni.
WAAAAAAH, snake pit.
I gotta stop this thing. It is turning into an obsession.
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Scott
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Post by Scott on Jan 26, 2016 0:16:48 GMT
Ulahn the only way you can be certain is to go to India and visit the forges in person.
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Post by aronk on Jan 26, 2016 2:13:45 GMT
I say we organize a group trip to India and Czech and do some investigation! Perhaps we could teach the Indians about the mysteries of distal taper whilst we're there... [Not really, but wouldn't it be nice?]
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Post by bfoo2 on Jan 30, 2016 4:23:18 GMT
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Post by bfoo2 on Jan 30, 2016 4:27:48 GMT
I also suspect that the manufacturers switch suppliers once in a while, leading to more variation and confusion with time.
I suspect that the manufacturers run a fixed-number contract with their suppliers for x quantity of units. Once the x number of grips, guards, whatever are delivered, the contract expires and they can either renew it, or switch to another (cheaper) supplier which may or may not produce exactly the same thing. This could mean a sword made by WEI in 2005 could have a different shaped guard than one made in 2015.
For example, I know that the Windlass Patton USED to come with a cloth-covered scabbard in the 2000s. Mine from 2015 has a plastic scabbard. I suspect the clot-scabbard contract expired in the 2000s and was replaced by the low-cost bid from the plastic people.
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Post by Dave Kelly on Jan 30, 2016 11:09:21 GMT
What's happened to my thread. Looks like the CIA has sabotaged it.... (Culinary Institute of America: I got mash potatoes on my swords.)
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Uhlan
Member
Posts: 3,121
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Post by Uhlan on Jan 30, 2016 13:51:54 GMT
I bet Uhlan and Dave Kelly 's walls look like this:
Naw, that's Daves wall. Typical old school NATO Cold War Intel mash up. Mine looks like this:
That's Windlass weekly raport. I don' know the F what it means, but that cat is genius, I am telling yah.
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Post by bfoo2 on Jan 30, 2016 20:00:36 GMT
I emailed WEI for informtion about their suppliers, and I got this:
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Deleted
Deleted Member
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Post by Deleted on Jan 30, 2016 21:14:29 GMT
Bwahaha! I bet even Stephen Hawking would be completely dumbfounded by all this
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Post by bfoo2 on Feb 1, 2016 3:58:00 GMT
In all seriousness though... I hope Empire Costume, if for nothing else and regardless of all their smoke and mirrors, at least shook WEI and Universal Swords out of their complacency. Every field needs competition. Otherwise we'd end up with the sword equivalent of a Trabant.
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Post by Daigoro on Feb 6, 2016 2:08:49 GMT
LOL...that's an innovative way to use the munitions section. What confused me was that to me, munitions, would imply combat worthy, a weapon of the line so to speak. When I first heard of the section, I assumed they were simply more basic items...the kind of stuff you'd send out with the less well off soldiers of the era. "Combat worthy" in that its the kind of stuff you'd give to the lowliest grunt. "Munitions Grade" sounds better than "A weapon fit for cannon fodder!"
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