pgandy
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Post by pgandy on Nov 22, 2015 19:06:23 GMT
I would like some input as to your thoughts here. I wish to add a longsword to my collection and have narrowed it down to three models. I will not be buying until early next year unless a super deal comes along and if so I probably won’t have much time to decide. Of the three models each is without its pros and cons.
A Tinker Pearce Sharpened Longsword. I like this for its handling reputation. I understand “Sharpened” is not all that sharp so will opt for sharpening at $20 additional. What has turned me almost completely off are reports about the ill fit in the scabbard. That is the steel throat makes contact with the blade resulting in dulling the edge, not mention the tell-tale sound of drawing it. It is possible, maybe, that I can relieve the tension and if so possibly giving an adverse effect on the sword/scabbard fit. The other issues or somewhat cosmetic such as being a plain Jane, the threaded nut, and straight quillion, all of which I consider only of minor importance. I would be buying it solely for its handling.
A CS Italian Long Sword. On paper the statistics look very good, I especially like the long grip, a major selling point to me. The reviews on YouTube are favourable, and CS has the reputation of making durable weapons. Something in the back of my mind says to stay away from this one as CS is not noted for their handling. The people on YouTube seem to be impressed only because of its cutting ability. The limited experience I’ve had with CS swords didn’t impress me with their handling, granted they are rugged and sharp. I do like the idea of a leather covered wooden scabbard. I think the Tinker’s scabbard while leather covered is made of something other than wood.
And the Windlass’ 15th Century Longsword, although not necessarily in that order. I had to pass that up on the DoD and doubt if I can the next time, if that happens after the first of the year. The strong selling point to me is the double ring quillion with its arched bar, I really like double ring quillions. What concerns me is 36½” x 45.8 mm blade on a sword by a company that has a reputation of whippy blades. I like the more acute points on the two previous swords, but find this not a big deal. I will go the extra $18 for sharpening. I am not enthused with a leather scabbard but can live with it.
Any thoughts? Please explain why.
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Post by Karoliner on Nov 22, 2015 19:57:44 GMT
Having experience building a sword from the HT Longsword blade, I would definitely recommend it over the others. Great distal taper and mine came with fairly good edge geometry. Really light, almost petite blade.
I once owned a Windlass Sword of Roven (reputably one of their better longsword models) and it was alright, but felt like a brick compared to the HT. The 15th Century Longsword was reviewed here, and was reported as being too whippy. A careful hand with a file and belt sander might be able to fix it, maybe not. The Windlass would be my last choice, of the three you mentioned, with the HT coming in first.
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Post by Insane on Nov 22, 2015 21:06:05 GMT
The H/T is a very nice sword and easy to customize if you want a better looking sword.
The CS longsword is okay but i don't get the smile on my face when i handle it. It just feels a bit dead to me.
The Windlass 15th century bastard i just bougth from a member so i can tell you when it arrives.
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pgandy
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Post by pgandy on Nov 22, 2015 21:14:18 GMT
The H/T is a very nice sword and easy to customize if you want a better looking sword. The CS longsword is okay but i don't get the smile on my face when i handle it. It just feels a bit dead to me. The Windlass 15th century bastard i just bougth from a member so i can tell you when it arrives. Please advice on the Windlass when convenient. As to customizing HT, the thought crossed my mind. However, by the time I receive a shipment my cost is easily double the vendor’s price. So I doubt if I’ll be customizing, certainly no time soon. Thanks, Karoliner.
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Post by Voltan on Nov 23, 2015 1:09:15 GMT
Out of your three choices, I've only owned the H/T Longsword. I can say its handling is superb. It's lightweight, and almost floats in hand. The one I bought back in 2012 came with an excellent factory edge.
I have read about Cold Steel swords having loose hilt issues, however I have no personal experience with their products.
The only Windlass sword I own is the Sword of Homildon Hill. It has some flex, but I would most certainly NOT call it whippy at all. It handles wonderfully, but I don't know how it would compare to the 15th Century Longsword.
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Post by Croccifixio on Nov 23, 2015 1:25:49 GMT
How about Valiant Armoury? They have a pretty nice sale ongoing.
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pgandy
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Post by pgandy on Nov 23, 2015 2:10:40 GMT
How about Valiant Armoury? They have a pretty nice sale ongoing. They are out of my price range. I am looking at about +$600 for the Atrim Prctical Long Sword, which appears to be the cheapest, by the time delivered. That is if I use their present $320 price, and I don't know how long that will last.
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Post by Caboose on Nov 23, 2015 2:50:48 GMT
Of the three, the only one I own is the CS italian. Honestly, I find it handles a little nicer than my H/T bastard, though my H/T bastard does have a pommel that's lighter than the stock pommel. If I had to describe the CS in a few words, I'd say its pretty good out of the box. The sharpening is good (miles better than my H/T was), the scabbard is good, the handling is good (subjective, but I like it. It feels very nimble) and the fittings look nice.
The only real complaints I have are the assembly method (though mines still rock solid even after cutting with it, including some failed cuts) and the stitched grip which feels a bit odd if you're switching between it and something like an Albion which has no grip seam. It doesn't really feel bad, just weird until you get used to it again.
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pgandy
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Post by pgandy on Nov 23, 2015 16:38:33 GMT
Thank you Caboose. That is the first time I’ve read one’s opinion of CS Long Sword. I’ve only found information on YourTube that stresses its cutting ability only. I don’t think the stitching will bother me, an advantage of not being spoiled by top end swords. And the grip does have a riser, something the HT does not.
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Post by Timo Nieminen on Nov 23, 2015 19:34:01 GMT
Of those 3, I've only handled the Tinker. It's lightweight, a little small. Nice sword. Thin grip. Beautifully vanishes-in-the-hand balanced. The reasons to not buy it are: it isn't an average longsword, but rather a small lightweight longsword, and it's very plain.
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pgandy
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Post by pgandy on Nov 24, 2015 1:38:21 GMT
Of those 3, I've only handled the Tinker. It's lightweight, a little small. Nice sword. Thin grip. Beautifully vanishes-in-the-hand balanced. The reasons to not buy it are: it isn't an average longsword, but rather a small lightweight longsword, and it's very plain. Thanks. You just confirmed what I had suspected although I did not know about the thin grip.
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Scott
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Post by Scott on Nov 24, 2015 10:52:52 GMT
Personally I would get the windlass out of those three, just for the double ring quillion. I've handled a ht, as others have said it's very light, also I felt it was more of a thrust oriented sword. What exactly are you planning to do with it?
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Post by Lukas MG (chenessfan) on Nov 24, 2015 13:58:38 GMT
I would recommend the H/T. It is a wonderfully agile and light longsword, not particularly long and quite handy. It favors the thrust but can cut quite well, assuming it's sharpened correctly (which probably none of these swords are, even with the sharpening option). The Windlass actually isn't that bad, the model I saw wasn't whippy in any way and handles quite nicely. Stay away from the DSA. Apart from the fact that DSA is IMO a horrible business, the hilt construction just leaves a lot to be desired.
Edit: grammar. Damn autocorrect... harpooned instead of sharpened...
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pgandy
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Post by pgandy on Nov 25, 2015 1:16:59 GMT
What exactly are you planning to do with it? That is a good question and I can only say that I have nothing specific in mind just a list of scattered questions/usages. The sword will answer my curiosity as to what to expect from such a sword. For a long time I ignored a long sword thinking it too long for my close quarters, but I think the ability to half sword will solve the problem if necessary. I am looking for a thrusting weapon that is up to cutting. I believe understanding a long sword will help me to understand history better. I think the long sword will fill a slot in my meagre collection of European swords which consist of two on hand and one in customs. And finally possibly to be used as home defence.
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Post by nddave on Nov 25, 2015 4:27:49 GMT
What exactly are you planning to do with it? That is a good question and I can only say that I have nothing specific in mind just a list of scattered questions/usages. The sword will answer my curiosity as to what to expect from such a sword. For a long time I ignored a long sword thinking it too long for my close quarters, but I think the ability to half sword will solve the problem if necessary. I am looking for a thrusting weapon that is up to cutting. I believe understanding a long sword will help me to understand history better. I think the long sword will fill a slot in my meagre collection of European swords which consist of two on hand and one in customs. And finally possibly to be used as home defence. If that's the case perhaps the Tinker is more up your alley. There are cons to the Tinker longsword that do kinda knock it off its pedestal, 1) Grip wrap is cheap and will eventually peel and shift, seems are pretty rough too. 2) Scabbard sucks. Loose fitting rattle can that does scrape the blade during drawing and sheathing. You pretty much need to carefully draw or sheath with the flat touching the mouth to avoid scratching the edges. 3) The tip though nice and pointy isn't very rigid or reinforced and is prone to bending so be careful what you thrust it into. 4) No matter what, when you cut with it extensively the nut will come loose. You'll have to re-tighten it. Doesn't sound like too much right? Well the problem comes into effect not because of the action but the reaction. The nut itself is made of pretty soft metal and after a moderate amount of turns the nut will strip. Happened to me. Lucky CasIberia does have nuts available to replace them (or at least did when I got my nut a few years ago). So just be aware of that. Aside from those three cons it's a great sword and if you can look over or manage those short comings you'll really enjoy the sword. Onto the 15th Cent by Windlass, 1) Pommel is threaded. Sure the tighten the heck out of them and use some sort of locktite to secure them it's still a threaded pommel so there's always concern of stripping the pommel if you need to re-tighten it extensively. Bonus is it isn't circular in shape so you'll never worry about it being lopsided. Another thing is out of all the talk of Windlass threaded pommels I've never really read a case where the pommel came loose, unless forced loose. 2) I've read the wire wrap can be hit and miss. Some have reported it isn't folded in properly and kinda pokes out an bites you. Some have reported it is loose and unevenly wrapped, making it uncomfortable. If you do choose to go with the 15thcent be sure to ask they inspect the wire portion of the wrap for any issues. 3) Regarding the whippyness I've haven't really read anything post 2010 claiming this sword is whippy beyond functional use. Medieval swords by design are meant to be flexible, pending typology. A sword that is too rigid won't be able to absorb and disperse the force of a blow to a hard target. I think a lot of the time flex is misconstrued as being whippy. If a sword held horizontally sags prominently you could say the blade is too flexible and or whippy for functional purpose. But that is also subjective to the length of the blade. Most swords of reasonable weight over 50" tend to have a little sag to them. Compared to my Homildon Hill which has similar thickness, though is 3 1/2" shorter in blade length the 15thcent shouldn't be whippy as the Homildon is not. It should also be taken into consideration that the 15thcent has a ricasso which adds to the base thickness. Comparing flex, the Homildon is actually more rigid than my H/T bastard and I know that the H/T Longsword is more flexible than the bastard to give you some insight. As far as the Cold Steel goes I haven't seen or read anything that really tells me to recommend that sword. The biggest scare would have to be the pommel construction as aside from being epoxied to the end thread there's nothing holding it at all. As the handle itself his fastened to the tang by a separate nut underneath and technically between the handle and pommel. The pommel I've also read is hollow which doesn't benefit anything at all as the pommel is meant to help counterbalance the blade, which is probably why CS Euros handle so clunky and blade heavy. Personally I'd hate for you to go through all you do to get a sword only to have to deal with the faults CS Euros have and be stuck with it. I'd personally suggest to stay away from the CS longsword. Hope this helps and if you have any more questions let me know.
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Post by Croccifixio on Nov 25, 2015 9:31:21 GMT
Just as an addendum (tangential at best), hollow pommels are historically accurate. It's the distal taper (or lack of it) that often lends to that clunky feeling in hand.
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Post by Lukas MG (chenessfan) on Nov 25, 2015 14:44:01 GMT
All of nddave points on the H/T are correct though I will ad the following:
1) Cheap grip wrap is the problem with all these swords. On the H/T it will be the easiest to replace yourself due to the take down assembly. That also makes it possible to customize the fittings (heat coloring for example).
2) True, the scabbard sucks. I could say that you might build your own and reuse the fittings but either way, the scabbard is garbage. Not sure if that is any better on the other 2 models though. In that price range, scabbards tend to be an after thought.
3) Mine didn't have that problem though the point stands that the tip is not meant for thrusts into heavy targets. A little bit of sanding to make the tip a bit steeper on the last few mm can help with this.
4) A bit of loctite will take care of that. But better do your customizing before you decide to lock it up ;) It can be undone with heat but it's a hassle.
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pgandy
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Post by pgandy on Nov 26, 2015 0:57:17 GMT
Thank you Nndave and Chenessfan. Your statements essentially reinforce what I have suspected. I don’t know if my summation of the HT is correct but it strikes me, for a lack of a better analogy, like comparing it to some modern martial arts weapon. That is it is made light and in such a fashion that the user has the best possible control and speed to make a good show in order to impress the judges as to his speed and form. While in actuality they are not what one would use in the field. Another thing about the HT’s blade there is a video out there of someone comparing five swords for a variety of attributes. One of which was thrusting it through maille. On withdrawing the tip was badly bent, the others were not in the least. I had pretty much discounted it up to that point. That was the deciding factor.
So at the moment the HT is all but forgotten. The CS is second mainly because of a gut feeling. The only positive I've seen is its cutting ability, not to degrade that. I do like the scabbard.
The Windlass while starting with a close lead has greatly lengthened. Also as the 15th Century doesn’t come sharpened I have the option to sharpen only part of the blade and put on the grind the I want. A special thanks to you Nndave about asking to have the wire wrap inspected when buying. I have read of some having a problem but had not considered requesting an inspection. It also has the most efficient quillion, a matter that I consider seriously. They are only some of the reasons.
Thanks to all that responded and if all goes well I’ll be purchasing early next year. Not only is the budget sworded out for this year customs is taking all my energy trying to get the Oakeshott XIV cleared.
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Post by Lukas MG (chenessfan) on Nov 26, 2015 7:33:14 GMT
I wouldn't say that the H/T is a sword for showing-off only. It is a light civilian longsword, not really intended to face armor of any kind. Its point has no trouble dealing with soft targets (unarmored humans) and the agility, speed and handiness are just what you want for a weapon you will carry around daily and use to defend yourself, fighting unarmored opponents. It is not however, the weapon you want to take with you to the battlefield to put down men in full armor. But it was as never intended as that.
The Windlass is a very decent sword. Good cutter and handles quite nicely. One thing I don't like too much about the Windlass (other than the threaded pommel) is the short grip length. That's purely subjective of course. The H/T has a much longer grip.
I used a Windlass 15th century sword blunted down for HEMA training. It fared better than I expected though the hilt assembly soon started to loosen up. So I took it apart and remounted the guard with metal wedges, applying epoxy to everything as well as red loctite to the pommel. After another 2 years of abuse, the hilt is still absolutely tight (though the blade needs to be retired soon).
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Post by pgandy on Nov 26, 2015 22:09:37 GMT
I did not mean that HT was for show only, only that it leaned in that direction more so than the others. I also think that the scabbard will have an adverse effect on the blade’s edge. As for Windlass’ short grip, that was a strong negative and a strong reason that that I was considering CS. Like almost everything in this world the Windlass is a compromise having more of what I consider the stronger points as well as those negatives that I can live with.
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