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Post by Sugiyama on Oct 10, 2015 23:11:24 GMT
So I've been going through some of my old PMs and posts about sabers and I just read the posts mentioning the CS Shamshir as the best handling sword on the market, and Skallagrim's review shows it is incredibly sturdy, even with the wooden grip instead of CS's plastic one. If I got ahold of some fittings, how much would it be to have someone make a new grip and apply these fittings? Who could I contact in that department?
Also, I've decided to give Universal a chance, as I do love the look of the Princess of Wales saber. I also have taken an interest in their British P1885 saber. I looked and saw Dave Kelly did a review of their British P1853, which judging from KOA's stats, and from the looks of it, the blades are identical. So far as I interpreted Dave's interview, the handling in a closed grip was not terrible for the P1853, so I wonder if this would be the case for the P1885. If anybody has any input on this, it'd be greatly appreciated.
Finally, I see a lot of antique swords with round tips. How much of a sin would it be to repair these tips?
Thanks folks!
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Post by aronk on Oct 12, 2015 1:16:47 GMT
I'll suggest looking around for a late model M1822 LC. They can sometimes be found for very reasonable prices if you know where to look and are patient enough. I purchased mine (manufactured in 1880) for less than $500. It did need some rather extensive cleaning work though. The brass was in rather nasty shape. It is completely solid, and handles like no other sabre I have ever used. I have done light cutting with it and have had no problems whatsoever. As for correcting a rounded antique tip, you would have to define "rounded" a bit more.
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Post by Sugiyama on Oct 12, 2015 2:48:34 GMT
The particular tip I'm referring to is this Swiss M1867: And a French M1822 is nice sounding. Getting a right handed saber is sounding more and more like a better idea, as training myself in saber treatises in my right hand would broaden my selection quite a bit. I think it'll just come down to what's available when I have the funds for a $200-$400 purchase, but the praise the M1822 (or rather all French sabers) have certainly earned it a place in the roster.
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Post by aronk on Oct 12, 2015 3:12:58 GMT
If you want ambidexterity (I'm a left hander myself, I just train with both), I strongly suggest a French M1829 Artillery sabre as well. A bit harder to get, but an excellent sword nonetheless.
As for tip rounding, I wouldn't do anything with that. Won't affect thrusting performance much.
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Post by aronk on Oct 12, 2015 3:18:15 GMT
That scabbard is rather beat up, isn't it? It has the usual stirrup dent, but it also has two more that I suspect weren't acquired in period.
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Post by Sugiyama on Oct 12, 2015 3:27:19 GMT
What makes you think so?
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Post by aronk on Oct 12, 2015 4:48:22 GMT
They have a bit too much of a "something fell on the scabbard whilst it was in storage" look to them. Something like that would have been corrected in period, most likely. In fact, modern steel cavalry scabbards frequently get dents that are corrected by removing the inserts, placing it on a mandrel, and hammering the dents out. Household cavalry and RHG scabbards frequently require such work.
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Post by Afoo on Oct 12, 2015 20:49:05 GMT
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Post by Sugiyama on Oct 12, 2015 23:57:28 GMT
I actually contacted the seller on that sword. Apparently the sword weighs .9kg (roughly 2lbs), but has a balance point of 31cm (roughly 12 inches). I guess this confirms what I read in this forum on SFI: www.swordforum.com/forums/showthread.php?98194-Swiss-Cavalry-Sabers-your-opinionsPost by J. B. Angiulo. To quote: "...a cavalry pattern of 1896 (I believe... a straightish, narrow and thick blade with a thin basket guard formed of sheet metal, pierced with long single slots on either side)... The 1896 cavalry saber, on the other hand, is a dog... On foot, however, it feels like a crowbar: heavy, sluggish, poorly balanced." This is a terrible shame. It's in such nice shape and looks quite good. Another thing to note, I contacted Kult of Athena and asked if the dimensions of Universal's P1853 and P1885 are the same aside from the handguard and scabbard, and received a confirmation from Ashley, that yes, this is the case. If the P1853 handles in hand as alright as Dave Kelly says it does, the 1885 may be worth a look, it seems.
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Post by Afoo on Oct 13, 2015 1:42:32 GMT
The 1853 is still by Universal Swords. If you are going with them, why not the Princess of Wales? :P
Sorry, I really like the Princess of Wales :P Especially if you are already paying upwards of 170 already
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Post by Sugiyama on Oct 13, 2015 1:54:45 GMT
Oh don't worry, the Princess of Wales is definitely on the roster for my production sword options. Between it, the P1885, and the Windlass/CS Shamshir if I can find someone to customize it. Otherwise, it'll just come down to what antique options are available when I have money again. Edit: Aaaaaand I just went and looked at some glamour shots of the Princess of Wales and I'm pretty sure I'm in love. RIP 1885
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Post by Sugiyama on Oct 13, 2015 2:22:29 GMT
Question that just popped into my head about the Princess of Wales: I haven't found many, if any, pictures showing this sword has historical precedence. The only picture I've found is this one in a thread from 2011: But this sword has brass furniture, a wire wrapped grip, a point that looks to bear resemblance more to a cutlass, and a large drag on the scabbard. So from where has this design been derived? Did Universal take some creative liberties, or do I need to dig deeper?
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Post by Afoo on Oct 13, 2015 4:55:53 GMT
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Post by Deleted on Oct 13, 2015 4:58:16 GMT
Question that just popped into my head about the Princess of Wales: I haven't found many, if any, pictures showing this sword has historical precedence. The only picture I've found is this one in a thread from 2011: But this sword has brass furniture, a wire wrapped grip, a point that looks to bear resemblance more to a cutlass, and a large drag on the scabbard. So from where has this design been derived? Did Universal take some creative liberties, or do I need to dig deeper? There were several variations of hussar type hilts over the decades. I don't know what Universal used as a model, nor where they got their ad copy but I had seen a similarly (in my mind ugly duckling) sword like the current offering. Here are a couple from an 1808 batch and you can see some similarites. www.the-saleroom.com/en-gb/auction-catalogues/wallis-and-wallis/catalogue-id-srwall10031/lot-103848b3-e3e3-4b79-8f15-a4a700f7e2cfwww.swordsandpistols.co.uk/swords_gallery/index.php?page=list-image&album=14The British 1788 light cavalry swords were of the hussar type hilt. Some hussar type hilts have langets, others do not and maybe the example you show above looks like a briquet or cutlass due to the lack of large decorated ones like the PoW swords. A lot of other earlier hussars had counter guards on the knuckle side, like my old Swedish sword.
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Post by Dave Kelly on Oct 13, 2015 10:47:38 GMT
You won't find a lot about this particular sword because it was initial a gift of the Prince of Wales (George IV) to honors light cav regiments with his assignation and a few hussar regiments who picked up the style. Richard Dellar's relatively new " British Cavalry Swords" devotes a chapter to them. They were officer swords and mostly blue and gilt ( So Universal can make another bundle on these by bluing them so I have to get another one...)
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Post by bfoo2 on Oct 14, 2015 0:57:13 GMT
I don't know much about the CS shamshir (or shamshirs in general). From the KoA pics, it looks like the tang is moulded into the plastic. Not sure if there's a neat (or environmentally friendly) way of removing them and installing custom wooden grips. Perhaps someone who has more experience with this weapon could comment? As aronk mentioned, shouldn't be a problem. As I've told my beginner fencing class over and over again: "Just 'cuz it's blunt doesn't mean it's safe. You can run a butterknife through someone if you put enough force into it... "
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Post by Sugiyama on Oct 14, 2015 1:53:15 GMT
An alternative to customizing the Cold Steel Shamshir would be the Windlass Shamshir, which is literally the exact same blade, just with different fittings, including a wooden grip instead of the plastic one. Either way, if anybody knew who customized blades like that, or tutorials for customizations like that are it'd be greatly appreciated.
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Post by Afoo on Oct 14, 2015 2:17:16 GMT
there is a Spanish 1907 going for cheap (less than 50 cdn, or 40-ish USD) with 17h left if you are interested in that. I have one - its a thrust centric sword, but very light in the hand, especially when compared to its 1913/1908 brethren from the states and the UK
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Post by bfoo2 on Oct 14, 2015 3:36:35 GMT
I have a Windlass 1913 Patton "sabre" (sabre in quotation marks for a reason). Handles pretty good for a broadsword and top value for your money, but doesn't really represent a traditional 19th century cavalry sabre in my opinion (hence why I couldn't recommend it earlier). Not sure what Dave Kelly's thoughts are on that topic (I understand he too has one). I looked at the stats of the Universal Swords P1908 Brit. With a PoB of 5', you might actually be able to use it as a half-decent cutter. If you're a fan of irony, that's the choice for you!
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Post by aronk on Oct 14, 2015 3:36:33 GMT
An alternative to customizing the Cold Steel Shamshir would be the Windlass Shamshir, which is literally the exact same blade, just with different fittings, including a wooden grip instead of the plastic one. Either way, if anybody knew who customized blades like that, or tutorials for customizations like that are it'd be greatly appreciated. The fundamental issue with customising a repro at that price point is that one may well end up putting nearly as much or indeed more money into the work than what was paid for the sword. In either case, the cash outlay frequently ends up being equivalent to what a reasonably serviceable antique would cost.
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