Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Aug 9, 2015 14:16:32 GMT
I will NEVER AGAIN buy anything self-defense sh*t from anyone...BADASS vid feat. Mr. Dan Inosanto...
|
|
Sean (Shadowhowler)
VIP Reviewer
Retired Moderator
No matter where you go, there you are.
Posts: 8,828
|
Post by Sean (Shadowhowler) on Aug 9, 2015 20:06:44 GMT
Its a decent general rule... but its subjective to the level of training the knife fighter has and the gun fighter has. For example... a guy like our own ShooterMike can get his pistol out and on target STUNNINGLY fast. I've visited with him a few times... one time her and my wife were doing some shooting together and he was demonstrating some techniques. He is SCARY fast. For him I'd suspect he could draw and fire on an untrained knife fighter inside the 10 ft and be successful. Also... there are some other basic principles at work here that have nothing to do with knife vs gun... and they are based on action vs reaction. In these cases the knife fighter is attacking first... and an attacker always has the jump on the defending, all other circumstances being equal. Inside close distances, an attacker with a knife can use the advantage that imitative gives him close the distance... and at arms length a knife is a far more versatile weapon then a gun.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Aug 9, 2015 21:00:21 GMT
But its really frustrating...learning all that crap 20 years ago...for nothing...thank god i never encountered a knife guy!!
|
|
Sean (Shadowhowler)
VIP Reviewer
Retired Moderator
No matter where you go, there you are.
Posts: 8,828
|
Post by Sean (Shadowhowler) on Aug 9, 2015 21:11:43 GMT
I was attacked by a knife... but it was my sister. ;-) I've still got a scar on my uper-left chest from where she slashed me. Lucky... aside from that... no knife attacks.
|
|
|
Post by Cottontail Customs on Aug 9, 2015 21:24:18 GMT
What a lot of people fail to take into account is the difference between a real situation and training. In the heat of the moment there is a very good chance someone without extensive training would just freeze up when an attack happens or at least fumble or forget something crucial like removing the safety, etc. A fearful adrenaline rush is a very real thing and something that is hard to replicate in training so even those that have trained still might react much differently in a real life sit. Most yahoo, home defense, Dirty Harry wannabees won't even have a chance to get their gun out of it's holster, if they even remember to reach for it at all. As stated in the op's video, it's always a good idea to know hand to hand techniques in addition to firearm training.
|
|
Sean (Shadowhowler)
VIP Reviewer
Retired Moderator
No matter where you go, there you are.
Posts: 8,828
|
Post by Sean (Shadowhowler) on Aug 9, 2015 22:15:09 GMT
What a lot of people fail to take into account is the difference between a real situation and training. In the heat of the moment there is a very good chance someone without extensive training would just freeze up when an attack happens or at least fumble or forget something crucial like removing the safety, etc. A fearful adrenaline rush is a very real thing and something that is hard to replicate in training so even those that have trained still might react much differently in a real life sit. Most yahoo, home defense, Dirty Harry wannabees won't even have a chance to get their gun out of it's holster, if they even remember to reach for it at all. As stated in the op's video, it's always a good idea to know hand to hand techniques in addition to firearm training. Word. What your saying is even true of martial arts and hand skills... practice in the gym or dojo but not under stress its VERY different. I've seen a couple martial arts I knew back in the day that were REALLY good in tournament fighting get their $emprini badly kicked in a real world street fight or bar brawl. What works in the controlled environment of tournament point fighting does not always work in real world situations. I was a decent tournament fighter... typically made top 5 sometimes top 3 but almost never won my division... but at the time I was doing tournaments I also worked as a bouncer and had a really angry youth... so I used to get in brawls a lot. Most of the guys I knew in tournies never had any skirmishes outside of their training and competition. I saw two of them, both much better tournament fighters then me, freeze up and get stomped on two different occasions. They were so confused and deflated... they both thought they were billy-bad$emprinies. I think the idea of training how you will fight can not be stressed enough... and is invaluable. Also... there is no substitute for experience.
|
|
|
Post by LG Martial Arts on Aug 9, 2015 22:47:54 GMT
One of the best pieces of advice I've ever received was from Dr. Clif Norgaard (Aikido/Jujitsu/Judo, etc - incredible fighter)... basically, whenever he would teach class (guest instructor), he would always stress that we should train for real world situations, not for the dojo. He always said "attack with intent, and defend with intent", but also reminded us that it in no way did that mean we should hurt our fellow students. Yes, it is a dichotomy: attacking/defending with intent while at the same time protecting your partner(s) from getting hurt... real fine line there. In any case, real world experience trumps dojo training 9 out of 10 times imho.
|
|
|
Post by svante on Aug 9, 2015 23:00:37 GMT
Fortunately we don't have to worry about knife attacks where i live.
1 arm takes the stabs while protecting vitals the other attacks the face, repeat until you have neutralized the threat or are able to run away, its pretty much the best you can do. Some debate using legs and feet noticeably to kick the groin, that's a terrible idea, when somebody attacks you with a knife they will be going with strong momentum right at you, removing a point of contact from the floor is a sure way to fall to the floor.
Better yet than any advice anybody can give you is to make sure you live somewhere with low crime rates, active citizens and avoid trouble at all times, helps to be prepared but its not worth being stressed and side looking everybody you cross, that's no life at all...
|
|
|
Post by Timo Nieminen on Aug 9, 2015 23:08:14 GMT
For example... a guy like our own ShooterMike can get his pistol out and on target STUNNINGLY fast. One fellow (in/near LA, IIRC) got fed up with his watch/jewelry store being robbed, and learned to draw quickly. His goal was to be able to draw and fire before somebody already pointing a gun at him could fire. He showed multiple times it worked, in real life. (One time, against two robbers, he was shot in the neck. Kept going until both robbers were down. He was asked in an interview (be a TV reporter) how he could keep shooting back after being shot. "I still had bullets left.") Which says something about the difference between an attack and a threat. As for a gun, these are also different for a knife. Knife defence against threats - being threatened by a knife wielder - is different from (and easier than) defence against a knife attack.
|
|
Sean (Shadowhowler)
VIP Reviewer
Retired Moderator
No matter where you go, there you are.
Posts: 8,828
|
Post by Sean (Shadowhowler) on Aug 9, 2015 23:24:57 GMT
For example... a guy like our own ShooterMike can get his pistol out and on target STUNNINGLY fast. One fellow (in/near LA, IIRC) got fed up with his watch/jewelry store being robbed, and learned to draw quickly. His goal was to be able to draw and fire before somebody already pointing a gun at him could fire. He showed multiple times it worked, in real life. I wouldn't say its a lost art... but its certainly not something most people I know train. I go out to an outdoor range early in the morning as often I can manage... and I training drawing from holster and firing from multiple positions as often as I can with my primary carry weapons. That still won't train my reaction time, or train me under stress, which is VITAL, but it does train the muscle memory and its better then nothing.
|
|
pgandy
Moderator
Senior Forumite
Posts: 10,296
|
Post by pgandy on Aug 10, 2015 4:33:20 GMT
I will NEVER AGAIN buy anything self-defense sh*t from anyone...BADASS vid feat. Mr. Dan Inosanto... Does that mean that the joke about the dumb $emprini who brought a knife to a gun fight wasn’t a joke? Hehe. I got into it once and my take away worked. There was no time to be scared, think, or freeze. I just acted out of reflex. I was lucky as hell and I think that was because I had two things going for me; the attacker was unskilled and was over confident because I was unarmed. I really don’t want to try that again; I can’t be that lucky twice.
|
|
|
Post by Derzis on Aug 10, 2015 16:25:22 GMT
The blade you see is the blade that is meant to scare, not to kill you. Knifes are not a joke and a wallet is not that important. Interesting vid.
|
|
Mikeeman
Member
Small Business Operator
Posts: 2,904
|
Post by Mikeeman on Aug 10, 2015 16:45:51 GMT
I don't know about the video, but Dan was in the lineage I trained in for a while. He was my teacher's teacher. So I guess that's kind of neat. In JKD, I think it went Bruce, Dan, my teacher, then me. I don't hold any sort of rank, so I don't actually count in the lineage, though.
|
|
|
Post by Cosmoline on Aug 10, 2015 23:42:13 GMT
The Tueller Drill is a very insightful exercise into the limits of the holstered handgun. The basic problem is that the handgun is purely offensive. It cannot guard any quarter of the body. So even when drawn it is not keeping you from being cut. You have to shoot the guy to stop him, often as he is cutting you. And unfortunately there have been a lot of real life scenarios where officers and others were killed or wounded because of this reality.
That doesn't mean there's no defense. For thousands and thousands of years people had to deal with bronze and then iron and steel knives jabbing at their giblets. And not surprisingly they came up with some pretty good remedies for this. By the high middle ages you see the very common use of sword and buckler. Unlike a handgun, the sword and buckler provide protection from the moment the blade is being drawn. The buckler doubles the protection. And if measure is maintained the knife wielder is going to be losing his hand in a hurry. There was also the "that's not a knife" response, in the form of the messer. Again increasing reach to neutralize the small blade before it can reach you. There are some echoes of these old skills as late as the 19th century in Bartitsu and cane fighting arts. Where for example a cape might be used in place of a buckler and the heavy stick as a sword to control measure and defend your quarters. But in the 20th century we've mostly forgotten these skills. And now we're surprised that our bullets aren't the magic fixit buttons we thought they were.
|
|
|
Post by mikhail on Sept 19, 2015 3:49:58 GMT
What a lot of people fail to take into account is the difference between a real situation and training. In the heat of the moment there is a very good chance someone without extensive training would just freeze up when an attack happens or at least fumble or forget something crucial like removing the safety, etc. A fearful adrenaline rush is a very real thing and something that is hard to replicate in training so even those that have trained still might react much differently in a real life sit. Most yahoo, home defense, Dirty Harry wannabees won't even have a chance to get their gun out of it's holster, if they even remember to reach for it at all. As stated in the op's video, it's always a good idea to know hand to hand techniques in addition to firearm training. Word. What your saying is even true of martial arts and hand skills... practice in the gym or dojo but not under stress its VERY different. I've seen a couple martial arts I knew back in the day that were REALLY good in tournament fighting get their $emprini badly kicked in a real world street fight or bar brawl. What works in the controlled environment of tournament point fighting does not always work in real world situations. I was a decent tournament fighter... typically made top 5 sometimes top 3 but almost never won my division... but at the time I was doing tournaments I also worked as a bouncer and had a really angry youth... so I used to get in brawls a lot. Most of the guys I knew in tournies never had any skirmishes outside of their training and competition. I saw two of them, both much better tournament fighters then me, freeze up and get stomped on two different occasions. They were so confused and deflated... they both thought they were billy-bad$emprinies. I think the idea of training how you will fight can not be stressed enough... and is invaluable. Also... there is no substitute for experience. I couldn't agree more. You need sustained, stressful, combat-type training to 'unwire' the completely natural human instinct to "freeze" in dangerous situations. There is no 'weakness' in this is has to become a trained, learned response. I have done krav maga training which is specifically designed to put you under the kind of shock/surprise stress you encounter in an attack situation, and yes we did the gun-knife drills - it is initially quite surprising how fast and how much ground a determined knife-wielding assailant can cover in the 1-whatever seconds it can take you to draw....and as you guys rightly point out all your fine motor skills will go to hell when your body is flooded with that kind of adrenalin. As a competitve IPSC pistol shooter I am accustomed to drawing fast and shooting on the run, but my av 1.8sec draw is really quite slow compared to many - and that's a lot of ground the knife-attacker can make in that time. Good illustration video here by Itay Gil (who is the global head of the krav school which I attended), and it shows how difficult it is, even for a many-years experienced former SF/YAMAN operative. Note that he utilises the krav '1.5 defence' of a simultaneous block to the knife arm and throat/windpipe punch to halt the initial attack before drawing the handgun.
|
|