|
Post by Afoo on Jul 25, 2015 20:36:26 GMT
From their website:
"We've been given advanced warning that due to the increasing costs of materials and labor in China, all Hanwei products will have a price increase starting September 1st. This increase will effect the selling prices by about 10%-15%. So if you've had your eye on any Hanwei products, now is the time to get those orders in before the prices start going up.
To help with this we've also modded the site so you will even be able to purchase back ordered Hanwei product in order to lock in the current sales price. Please keep in mind that any back orders may take up to several months to ship, but your order will reserve the product for you at the current listed price. Also, by default, your order will wait until all items are available before shipment, so it is best to place any in stock items on a separate order so they are not held up"
|
|
|
Post by nddave on Jul 25, 2015 22:47:45 GMT
So lame... By next year you'll be paying $500 for a Practical Katana no doubt. They're prices keep rising and the Ebay Chinese vendors keep getting cheaper and or the same. Makes you think if the "costs of materials" in China is increasing so wouldn't the rest of the Chinese forges be raising their prices? For example I don't see Ronin going up any on their site.
Sadly the more the staples like Hanwei and Windlass go up in price the more irrelevant they're going to get in the market. Why buy a Tinker when they're now closer to the ball park of a Valiant or even less than the new Ronin Line? It seems Hanwei is set on pricing themselves out of the market. Unless they up their QC and overall manufacturing process I don't see them lasting much longer at the prices they're asking.
I'm all for the industry succeeding and all but when the price of sub production models get into the higher end model price but with the same sub quality that's when I draw the line.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Jul 26, 2015 0:49:41 GMT
It's really an increased cost of labour in China as their standard of living gives up. The products with a better finish and QC such as Hanwei have more time put into them and therefore have a more significant labour cost component.
The cheaper Chinese stuff all comes out of a few forges, and gets sold through various vendors. As those forges begin to grow and scale up, they achieve certain economies of scale, and streamline their manufacturing processes, while refining their products more to what the market wants, so their costs can go down and offset any short term increased labour costs - up to a point. Expect in the future that once they pass that 'sweet spot' that their prices will eventually go up too.
You'd better get used to it, it's only in the US (which happens to be only one country in the whole world) where you guys pay the low prices you do, AND get free shipping. All us overseas buyers have been paying a heck of a lot more for many years, and if we want to buy locally we pay roughly double! Even ordering from the US, we have to add around $70 for shipping, and when our exchange rate is below the US dollar, that's more like $100, then add 20-30% more to the cost of the sword for the same reason.
Right now in the land down under, a US$480 sword with very cheap shipping of around US$40 (from an ebay vendor) will set me back over $720! You yanks don't know how lucky you've got it. My advice, buy up what you like while it's cheap, it's not going to get any cheaper.
|
|
|
Post by nddave on Jul 26, 2015 1:30:05 GMT
Problem I have with Hanwei's consistent price hikes is the fact that your paying almost triple for swords that hold the same quality placement elsewhere. The question buyers are going to ask is, is the H/T package worth the price compared to a Valiant? Is the new higher price of a Practical Katana worthy over a lower price Hauwei or even Ronin? That's what I meant by Hanwei pricing themselves out of the market. Their inconsistencies in katana q/c were usually construed by their moderate price point by most reviews. Now that Hanwei is reaching even deeper into buyers wallets, will those compromises still be there? Will the basic H/T European line hold up as the best bang for your buck euro or will it be overshadowed by the better offerings that it now shares the market with in their new price bracket? Will anyone even look at their standard euro line which is mostly comparable to Windlass and other low tier lines at the price of the mid tiers?
At that point I think I'm better off trying to make my own swords. After studying Jeffery's and Tinker's stock removal tutorials I believe me and my brother can pull it off. If I ever get it going I'd like to try and work out all the European Typologies from X-XX.
Trouble here though is what happens to the friendly sub-$300 forum when all the sub-$300 options run out?
|
|
|
Post by LG Martial Arts on Jul 26, 2015 2:12:28 GMT
Trouble here though is what happens to the friendly sub-$300 forum when all the sub-$300 options run out? That sure is a quandary we all might be facing in the near future... maybe SBG will have to update its mission statement as well in order to reflect price increases
|
|
|
Post by nddave on Jul 26, 2015 2:51:36 GMT
Trouble here though is what happens to the friendly sub-$300 forum when all the sub-$300 options run out? That sure is a quandary we all might be facing in the near future... maybe SBG will have to update its mission statement as well in order to reflect price increases Indeed, but perhaps in regards to Paul perhaps this is what he's been trying to do with the SBG sword store. He's been given crap by all of us almost at some point and time about about being in with Chris and Ronin and perhaps things haven't folded out like he originally planned. Though I wonder if his plan of working with Ronin was simply him trying to keep a line of both European and Japanese swords on the market in the sub $300 price point? Sure project X kinda debunks that as that line pretty much sit above but still maybe?
|
|
|
Post by Croccifixio on Jul 26, 2015 3:27:51 GMT
If ronin keeps doing what it's doing and improves its process (heat treat number one, and its fittings), then Hanwei might be in trouble. The aggressive innovation and continual standard-checking can only do wonders for its image.
|
|
|
Post by Afoo on Jul 26, 2015 3:53:09 GMT
The new offerings from Wulflund on KoA may also put a dent in Hanwei's market dominance. Wide range of items and quite reasonably priced.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Jul 26, 2015 4:14:25 GMT
It's not a one-to-one comparison between vendor's products though. They offer different products which emphasise different aspects of the product.
If I wanted a great Euro sword in a type XVIIIa that had a really good blade and handled great that I could customise to my heart's content, and I wasn't fussed about the fittings then I would get a H/T Bastard sword (I own one for that reason).
If I was after a sword with a distinct theme, such as a Templar themed Type XII, then I'd go for the Valiant Armoury Knights Templar Sword. It's apples and oranges in my mind.
Even if we're talking similar style swords, a Hanwei Tinker Great Sword of War (even though it's still much cheaper) would appeal to a different set of buyer's requirements that the aforementioned VA warsword.
No one would discourage anyone from making their own here, and if you've got the latent talent and ability, this might be just the thing to bring it out! ;)
|
|
|
Post by jwest on Jul 26, 2015 5:05:42 GMT
The new offerings from Wulflund on KoA may also put a dent in Hanwei's market dominance. Wide range of items and quite reasonably priced. I came across these two swords in the new product section. Arma Epona seems to be stepping it up a bit. There are still some issues such as grip length, lack of distal taper, and a obvious secondary bevel. But both swords seem to be much improved examples of their product line. SKOFNUNG, forged viking sword - wulflund.com
Forged Celtic Chieftain Sword - wulflund.com
|
|
|
Post by William Swiger on Jul 26, 2015 7:24:32 GMT
I would add that Hanwei is a major company and cannot be compared to EBay vendors who are not a real company in any sense. They just sell and/or order swords from forges to sell on EBay. You have to take into account what it takes to fund a major company. You have salaries, marketing, customs and everything else. They offer many different types of weapons as well.
You can always go the EBay route or another seller who has not had a price increase as well for Japanese style swords. VA for medieval swords is an option. I think DSA who I don't personally recommend runs a similar operation like VA but on a lower quality level. The Windlass deal of the Day has some decent swords for the price every so often.
The production companies (real companies) who produce decent sub-300 swords is very limited. There are only so many models out there. Finding a good production company sub-300 sword is very limited. The reality is other than a few models, this is not a real option. Most companies have well exceeded that price limit. You have a few good sub-300 from production companies but most now are in the 400-700 range. A few of you handy guys can get blades and build your own swords but most people will have to shell out more than 300 bucks or look to purchase pre-owned swords.
Just my personal thoughts on the subject.
|
|
|
Post by Jussi Ekholm on Jul 26, 2015 14:37:46 GMT
Very minor increase and it's no wonder they have to do that. Hanwei has been pushing out great quality for little money.
|
|
|
Post by Afoo on Jul 26, 2015 14:41:00 GMT
I don't know about that - I think there are still a fair number of sub-300 dollar swords around. Even with the price increase, many of Hanwei's offerings are sub-$300. Same with many of the Windlasses, Ronin Katana, and Wulflund. Sure they have their shortcomings, but I would argue that, on the whole, they are still a decent product.
Perhaps the issue is that we have come to expect too much form the sub-$300 market. These are entry level swords after all.
|
|
|
Post by nddave on Jul 26, 2015 19:02:17 GMT
I don't know about that - I think there are still a fair number of sub-300 dollar swords around. Even with the price increase, many of Hanwei's offerings are sub-$300. Same with many of the Windlasses, Ronin Katana, and Wulflund. Sure they have their shortcomings, but I would argue that, on the whole, they are still a decent product. Perhaps the issue is that we have come to expect too much form the sub-$300 market. These are entry level swords after all. Sure there is and when talking KOA your always getting a significantly lower price over MSRP, but in regards to Hanwei themselves is another price hike going to be acceptable to the quality of products they put out? Sure five years ago it seemed Hanwei quality was a steal at the prices asked but now their MSRP will be sitting around $400-$500 for their European lines and $400-$1200 for their Japanese lines. Sure the Marshall for example held up very well against the likes of DSA and Windlass offerings in the same price bracket but will it hold up next to say the Valiant Templar or even the Albion Squire Line? In regard to the entry level rising, if the new entry level will soon be $500 or in the next few years, expect either the market to shift even more towards Ebay or even shrink significantly regarding consumers.
|
|
|
Post by Krelian on Jul 26, 2015 21:35:01 GMT
I would add that Hanwei is a major company and cannot be compared to EBay vendors who are not a real company in any sense. They just sell and/or order swords from forges to sell on EBay. You have to take into account what it takes to fund a major company. You have salaries, marketing, customs and everything else. They offer many different types of weapons as well. This is exactly my feeling on the situation as well. Unfortunately, it does no favors to Hanwei OR us customers. I'm sure when it comes to audits, taxes, regulations and things of that nature in China Hanwei has no way to hide. Whereas it's actually very common in China for a tiny operation to just shut down and move and open under a different name down the street when it comes time for an audit or an inspection. This isn't something that just small sellers of metal wares do, there are actually small chemical plants in China that manufacture for (very questionable) pharmaceutical companies that do this, and if they sell something tainted they still just pack up and leave before anyone comes back to investigate! Hanwei has spent around 30 years trying to build good quality products at a good price and has built a pretty good and well deserved reputation in that time as well. Some of these small "forges" that sell on eBay do produce some very good stuff at a price that literally no one else can beat, but they also have a lot of technically illegal little tricks they can use to keep costs low... But in general this sort of thing is nothing new, even in the English-speaking world. It's just sort of how things go...
|
|
|
Post by LemuelTheLemur on Jul 27, 2015 3:08:03 GMT
Yeah i don’t think there’s any cause to get worked up yet. Hanwei still puts out great products and the tinker line swords are the only production swords made outside the USA that involve the collaboration and blessing of a reknown sword smith. I’d personally prefer to have a tinker bare blade customised by Sonny at VA than buy one of his stocked blades from China. If Ronin managed to get someone like Gus or Tom K to help design a blade, then I might start putting Ronin’s euro line on equal footing with Hanwei’s Tinker line.
|
|
|
Post by Jayhawk on Aug 1, 2015 2:36:47 GMT
Price increases happen. I love my Hanwei Chinese cutting jian. Like with the Tinker line, their willingness to collaborate with experts has led them to put out some very good, and very functional, swords at a reasonable price. I would have paid the price increase for this sword, no problem!
|
|
admin
Site Admin
Posts: 2,088
|
Post by admin on Aug 19, 2015 9:15:30 GMT
Yup, they really don't have a choice.. The ebay vendors are taking over because they have zero overheads, most are part timers and can live on $5 profits while real companies like Hanwei have huge investment, overheads, wages, import duties, etc.
It is industry wide too - the google ban on advertising from last year is really starting to bite.. Many forges over there are down by 80% production year over year and some of the smaller forges are already going under..
Word to the wise - get what you can while you can.. I have seen it before and it looks like it will be worse this time..
We are actually in the middle of an industry wide shakeup - the more you see sell offs and closeouts, the more desperate the industry really is..
Absolute worst case scenario - the sub $300 market disappears and all we have is stainless steel cheapies and high end swords with no middle ground..
SBG will do what we can to prevent this - but with the ebay sellers so popular and many respected sellers often slammed unfairly (often by people with an agenda, which is why we have so many rules and restrictions here to focus on the positives)..
Yeah - "interesting times" indeed.. :P
- Paul
|
|
Mikeeman
Member
Small Business Operator
Posts: 2,904
|
Post by Mikeeman on Aug 19, 2015 14:11:51 GMT
^ How long have I been saying that?
|
|