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Post by Ari M. on Jul 10, 2015 10:09:50 GMT
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Post by Croccifixio on Jul 10, 2015 10:24:31 GMT
Looks really good! I hope you rattan-wrapped the saya as well!
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Post by Ari M. on Jul 10, 2015 11:19:45 GMT
Looks really good! I hope you rattan-wrapped the saya as well! Not yet, saya is still in good shape even if a bit boring (gloss black)! Thinking I might try to find some nice red lacquer for the saya and sand it down in spots and streaks. |
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Greg E
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little bit of this... and a whole lot of that
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Post by Greg E on Jul 21, 2015 15:09:46 GMT
I am really liking the way a rattan wrap can make a saya look. I have not seen a tsuka done this way before and I like it as well. Well done, thanks for sharing.
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Post by justin520 on Jul 22, 2015 9:42:46 GMT
This is such a sexy tsuka, I wonder if it reinforces like same and ito though.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 22, 2015 10:18:48 GMT
I would reinforce much better than pretty cotton, it's rattan for heaven sake, this stuff is structural material, the Japanese yari and naginata were wrapped with this to reinforce the shaft around the tang, People these days make furniture out of it and the ancient Chinese made shields for combat out of the stuff! :)
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Post by L Driggers (fallen) on Jul 22, 2015 10:18:44 GMT
I would say it's stronger than same and ito.
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Post by Ari M. on Jul 23, 2015 9:59:11 GMT
Full overlapped same with epoxy might be stronger (since it'd be one single big surface glued down, less failure points), but so would anything with modern epoxy! Not sure how easy it would be to stick down rattan with rice paste (what did they use to glue down rattan anyways?)
I've had a chance to use this iaito at training a few times and so far the rattan feels very good, no blisters, surprisingly doesn't get slippery with sweat like I imagined it would. Probably because of the ribbing and lacquer texture
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Post by Deleted on Jul 24, 2015 9:02:57 GMT
The whole point of ito or any other wrap is to create a cross-grain reinforcement to strengthen the wooden core in by providing bracing across two axes. Wood is strong along the grain and resists compression, wrapping the wood perpendicular to the grain braces it in the direction where it would split. Panels of samegawa were used traditionally so this part wasn't a critical structural component.
Epoxying anything makes it an epoxy composite construction. You can probably go one better and use a wooden core that's epoxy pressure treated so it becomes a stabilized wood/plastic composite. As long as it doesn't shrink, it would make one very tough handle!
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Post by Cottontail Customs on Jul 24, 2015 19:27:14 GMT
I wonder if it reinforces like same and ito though. Having worked extensively with both samegawa and rattan, I'd guess that a full wrap of quality samegawa, which was then wrapped with good silk ito, would be stronger overall than just the rattan. I haven't done any testing though so it's still just a guess. Either way, the tsuka would be very well protected. -Josh |
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Post by william m on Jul 24, 2015 22:15:11 GMT
That looks awesome. I have been playing around with doing this on a tanto but I don't have rattan that is thin enough. Good job on it!
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Post by Derzis on Jul 24, 2015 22:30:31 GMT
The whole point of ito or any other wrap is to create a cross-grain reinforcement to strengthen the wooden core in by providing bracing across two axes. Wood is strong along the grain and resists compression, wrapping the wood perpendicular to the grain braces it in the direction where it would split. Panels of samegawa were used traditionally so this part wasn't a critical structural component. Maybe 99.999%. Please give the diamonds their functional reason to be there too. Even if just 0.001%. An educated finger will use some of those diamonds as a way to decrease the power of the grip without losing the hold when swinging. And they will live happily ever after, feeling the 'scratchy' samegawa bonding with the tip while relaxing on the seductive silk. How could you be so engineer? Have feelings please, don't destroy that marriage between tip and diamonds! (curtain falls, the silence is broken by the church' bell nearby)
And back to the topic, it looks fine. Not my cup of tea for vary reasons (one is above and the other is I don't like raw menuki in my palm), but if it works for you, great!
PS Panels are used to hold the diamonds in place. If Japanese were 'engineers' when they needed to be, they would have just wrap the sword in silk a couple of times and that's it. No need to pay that much for a wrapping or create an entire specialized class of workers. I bet their wives were even better in wrapping with all the experience with changing diapers. Stupid guys!
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Post by Deleted on Jul 24, 2015 22:47:23 GMT
Derzis, don't forget that ito wrapped in neat diamonds along the whole grip was a more decorative form of wrap, the battle wrap was named that for a reason, it's more practical! Having a flat part in the middle and diamonds on the sides means it can be used single handed from horseback and is less likely to fly out of your hands. The wraps on tachi were crossed but flat - depends what you want the grip to do, and how much cushioning you want it to provide.
Many ways to wrap a tsuka, they are all completely functional. Examples from tsukamaki.net
 
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Post by Derzis on Jul 24, 2015 22:58:32 GMT
You see? DEPENDS is the word, and NECESSITY is the world. If we are talking about evolution, tachi grip wrapping changed towards diamonds. I don't want to get Frankthebunny involved here, but why in hell they would put diamonds on a katate-maki if a full wrap was enough? And don't tell me "esthetics"
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Post by Cottontail Customs on Jul 24, 2015 23:02:14 GMT
I don't know a lot about the history of tsukamaki and I'm not a practitioner but judging from gripping all kinds of styles, I'd have to say that katate-maki gives me less of a sure grip than a full katahineri-maki or tsumami-maki. That is if there are two to three hishi before the flat portion. I find that my fourth and pinky finger have less to grip or lock onto without the diamonds there. With the combination of nice wide diamonds and properly placed menuki, my fingers can find and hold their position quickly and easily. With deeper pockets and the raised crossover, my grip feels even more secure than with shallow ones such as on hiramaki.
From a total novice's viewpoint, katate-maki would be more likely to slip out of my grip in a fight.
-Josh
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Post by Derzis on Jul 24, 2015 23:04:04 GMT
Bingo. Thanks Josh. Those 3 diamonds up and 3 down on a katate-maki are giving that minimum type of adherence and back to the killing. Especially when is raining.
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Post by Ari M. on Jul 25, 2015 7:44:03 GMT
That looks awesome. I have been playing around with doing this on a tanto but I don't have rattan that is thin enough. Good job on it! I've seen rattan as thin as jabara ito used to decorate yumi; a kyudo shop might be a good place to look! Would it be difficult to split regular rattan neatly along its length into thinner strips? |
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Post by Jussi Ekholm on Jul 25, 2015 10:28:22 GMT
Looks very well made, I like it a lot.
The whole battle-wrap is probably invention of English speakers. Just like blood grooves and other similar things. Katate-maki (方手巻) has the same kanji as katate-uchigatana as latter means onehanded striking sword, I would read and think the first as onehanded wrapping. I haven't seen it referred as "battle wrap" in any of my sword books (only one is Thomas Buck's tsukamaki book).
Personally when I have held swords one handed from that middle single strand portion it feels very nice. And I've noticed that sometimes on fast draws for short blades I just grab the middle portion of the tsuka. Hence the onehanded use and fast draws for short swords.
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Post by Derzis on Jul 25, 2015 16:09:45 GMT
It must be a late invention, but it still shows the utility of diamonds on a tsuka for a katana. Just enough added grip for last tree l-hand fingers and first 3 r-hand fingers.
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