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Post by Kiyoshi on Sept 8, 2015 6:15:14 GMT
I think this has turned from a ryan swords threat to a "let's discuss eBay vendors and their techniques" thread. lol As for a belt grinder, I think it is bad to make an edge with it, and I think it is bad to profile a sword with it too much. A little seems fine (however I have an issue with the heat thing I mentioned earlier) but that is more or less to grind out irregularities. i don't think it should be used to bring an edge to the sword as it can do a messy job imo. Saves time, and therefore money, but it is likely an evil we'll have to live with at this price point and many a lot higher.
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Post by Croccifixio on Sept 8, 2015 6:55:40 GMT
I vote to actually change the title to "Ebay Katana Discussion: Ryansword and Co."
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Post by greatsaiyaman on Sept 8, 2015 7:00:12 GMT
And Kaneie, Hanwei etc etc lol
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Post by Kiyoshi on Sept 8, 2015 7:04:47 GMT
I vote to actually change the title to "Ebay Katana Discussion: Ryansword and Co." I second this vote.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 8, 2015 7:05:52 GMT
Thanks to the gods i am not that deep in the katana swamp; according to this none of us Euro/Fantasy buyers should be allowed to buy something else than superexclusive customs like Longship or Castle Keep, yes, even Albion wouldnt be "allowed", because theyre not traditionally made! Again, this whole Katana cult is at the border of childish, pseudo-intellectual behaviour...you guys are not part of the japanese culture; you can respect it, you can like it...but you will never completely understand it. Its a good thing to shed light on some at least questionable marketing stuff and on advertising techniques which could be called lies, and i appreciate the effort, but the whole discussion on polishing techniques, grip wraps, end knots(!)...A SWORD IS A GOOD SWORD IF IT CUTS WELL, SURVIVES PARRYING AND BLOCKING AND HELPS YOU THROUGH THE BATTLEFIELD - no more magic in there - and i sure as hell would bet my life on a well made modern steel, lets say an Albion or even a Zombietools, rather than on a 5000,- USD piece of modern or traditional artwork. Well, now you could say: "Man, stay out of this if you dont care" but this is a free forum...;-) A little word: theres a very nice old man in Switzerland, a man whos been collecting REAL Nihonto for almost 30 years and whom i would call some kind of expert who swears ALL of the pieces he owned and traded were typical show stuff...a samurai wrapped his grip with whatever he had at hand on the field, leatherstrips, cloth, cord... NOBODY cared for "alternating wraps", "end knots" or so... I will see if i can find his name again and if i suceed i will try to convince him to show up here...THERE could be some interesting discussions! But i even dont knoe if hes still alive, i believe hes in his 80ies already...we will see. OK, gents i just had to get rid of that; it laid in my guts for 27 pages now, leaving a VERY ugly feeling there... Pheww! Just catching my breath...now i am sexually aroused...xD
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Post by aussie-rabbit on Sept 8, 2015 7:09:52 GMT
That kissaki is not nice either
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Post by Deleted on Sept 8, 2015 7:10:48 GMT
*sigh*
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Post by Kiyoshi on Sept 8, 2015 7:23:49 GMT
Thanks to the gods i am not that deep in the katana swamp; according to this none of us Euro/Fantasy buyers should be allowed to buy something else than superexclusive customs like Longship or Castle Keep, yes, even Albion wouldnt be "allowed", because theyre not traditionally made! Again, this whole Katana cult is at the border of childish, pseudo-intellectual behaviour...you guys are not part of the japanese culture; you can respect it, you can like it...but you will never completely understand it. Its a good thing to shed light on some at least questionable marketing stuff and on advertising techniques which could be called lies, and i appreciate the effort, but the whole discussion on polishing techniques, grip wraps, end knots(!)...A SWORD IS A GOOD SWORD IF IT CUTS WELL, SURVIVES PARRYING AND BLOCKING AND HELPS YOU THROUGH THE BATTLEFIELD - no more magic in there - and i sure as hell would bet my life on a well made modern steel, lets say an Albion or even a Zombietools, rather than on a 5000,- USD piece of modern or traditional artwork. Well, now you could say: "Man, stay out of this if you dont care" but this is a free forum...;-) A little word: theres a very nice old man in Switzerland, a man whos been collecting REAL Nihonto for almost 30 years and whom i would call some kind of expert who swears ALL of the pieces he owned and traded were typical show stuff...a samurai wrapped his grip with whatever he had at hand on the field, leatherstrips, cloth, cord... NOBODY cared for "alternating wraps", "end knots" or so... I will see if i can find his name again and if i suceed i will try to convince him to show up here...THERE could be some interesting discussions! But i even dont knoe if hes still alive, i believe hes in his 80ies already...we will see. OK, gents i just had to get rid of that; it laid in my guts for 27 pages now, leaving a VERY ugly feeling there... Pheww! Just catching my breath...now i am sexually aroused...xD I think you a seriously misunderstanding our intent. I can't speak for everyone, but I don't see things as magic and my appreciation lies nothing close to a cultist. I have being practicing swordsmanship for over half my life and I know that blades made certain ways last longer than others. For as much as we spend on some of these things, I want them to not chip easily, have poor heat treating due to being reheated while belt sanded, have terrible grip that falls off, look like it fell out of a horse's behind, and be lied to about what it's made of. I'm sure the same goes for your euro swords. I appreciate the culture, I like aspects of the culture, but I would never make it over there. They have concepts that someone with aspergers would absolutely fail at such as honne and tatemae, and I can't read a room for... well, a horse's behind. I love the game of go (chinese technically), I love JMA, I love Japanese food, but I am in no way Japanese nor do I purport to be. Historical samurai did care for some aspects that we talk about. Not all samurai fought on the battlefield. Even modern swords have some of these feature you claim don't matter. I hate to say this but you are drawing lines where none exist. This doesn't claim to be intellectual conversation or any of us trying to be Japanese. I'm a Native American (blackfoot) and white. I drink Japanese tea while wearing my french shoes and play video games on my american computer while studying german radiology sitting on my European chair. I don't see the point in associating with any one of those cultures. Please don't be so rude to those of us just having a fun discussion. We promise we are not cultist who think katana can slice tanks.
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Post by L Driggers (fallen) on Sept 8, 2015 7:31:01 GMT
Every day this place turns more like being SFI.
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Post by Kiyoshi on Sept 8, 2015 7:32:07 GMT
Every day this place turns more like being SFI. I've only read a few threads over there. What do you mean by this?
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Post by L Driggers (fallen) on Sept 8, 2015 7:35:17 GMT
The people who started here a long time a go will know what I mean.
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Post by Croccifixio on Sept 8, 2015 8:33:55 GMT
I sure hope not. Never was around, but I do snoop around SFI from time to time and much prefer the laid back nature of this place.
In any case Holg, I don't think people are being - forgive the term - anal about it. Sometimes, it's fun to be picky, because it makes the hobby more interesting. And sure, a non-alternating ito, fugly-polished, wonky geometry, axe-handled Chinatana can cut a guy's neck off with one strike, but heck, a guillotine can do that and I'm not a fan of guillotines. The point is, there are some things that people appreciate, be it the small details, the overall aesthetics, that others cannot. That's fine. We can talk about simple, cutting instruments that look like swords too. No problem with that. We can talk about that too, that's fine.
There's room enough for everybody, be it the Zombie-chopper fans, the HEMA afficionados, the Katanaphiles, the Fantasy geeks. You can spend $50 on a Musashi or $20000 for a Yoshindo and you are equally a sword fan and should be welcome here. That doesn't mean, however, that people should accept that the Musashi is just as nice as the Yoshindo.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 8, 2015 8:49:45 GMT
Was not my intention to be or sound rude...it feels just so...unnecessary serious and...exaggerated. Wheres the fun?
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Post by levi on Sept 8, 2015 8:55:53 GMT
Was not my intention to be or sound rude...it feels just so...unnecessary serious and...exaggerated. Wheres the fun? Some people are passionate and serious about things. It's doesn't feel unnecessary and childish to them. If you don't feel the same way , let people be what they want to be and talk about things they want to talk about Please excuse my bad English. I hope it is understandable
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Post by greatsaiyaman on Sept 8, 2015 9:28:18 GMT
What an abrasive attitude to take. Some people just have no appreciation for art. A katana today and all it's virtues are expressed in a culture YOU don't understand, and being half Japanese myself has nothing to do with it. Japanese are a modern moving society that embrace and share with many other cultures. If China are willing to make there own reproductions then all we wish is for there methods to improve so one day they can match there quality. Saying 'the samurai didn't care blah blah blah' has nothing to do with today's continued survival of Japanese culture. A nihinto is an art piece. There's no wars anymore fought with swords and if you say they are for cutting well, who are you going to cut with it? I would like to have my pieces well kept and take some pride and appreciation for the skills involved in making them.
Edit - I also find the term 'cultist' particularly offensive. You may as well labels us some racist derogatory term instead. Well whatever dude, make yourself seem more of a douche. My preference of swords is the katana, but not how you think. I think a rapier would beat a katana in a duel...
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Post by svante on Sept 8, 2015 10:36:26 GMT
Was not my intention to be or sound rude...it feels just so...unnecessary serious and...exaggerated. Wheres the fun? People can decide by themselves what they think is necessary or not in there purchase, its there hard earn cash not yours. Personally i love this thread, not only does it aspire to higher quality but it also teaches somebody who doesn't know about Katana's what matters. Keep up the good work guys +1
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Post by Deleted on Sept 8, 2015 10:38:13 GMT
Oh, i am absolutely sure the quality can match...no doubt there. The problem is sorting out the "garbage" and "liars stuff"...but your reaction just did it for me. I will stay out of those katana discussions for good now...live in peace.
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Post by Jussi Ekholm on Sept 8, 2015 11:40:08 GMT
Every day this place turns more like being SFI. Unfortunately I have to agree with Fallen. I've been saying it for a while that lately there has been so much negativity in this forum, where is all the fun? Swords are fun, right? Early-mid days of SFI were golden, I must say that much. It was pretty sweet back then, but I noticed I was getting bit into snob party myself, and I'm still sometimes bit too snobbish... Took me darn too long to register in here. Then some real discussion. I don't mind any smith using power tools these days. After all we are living in 2015, and modern tools are available. Using them does not make the sword any less of a sword. In the book The Art of Japanese Sword - The Craft of Swordmaking and Its Appreciation, Yoshindo Yoshihara states about the beginning of polishing like this This is accompanied with pictures of Yoshindo using the water-cooled belt grinder with explanations in captions what is being done in that picture. As for the different eBay vendors, I really don't see Ryansword being that much crappier than the rest of them. I mean it's pretty hard to see much difference from one 300$ sword to another.
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Post by Kiyoshi on Sept 8, 2015 13:04:03 GMT
It's in the details. If one vendor gives us a good tsukamaki for under $300 we feel they all should. It is mainly the deception and the hype that we take in jest. We especially take the thousand dollar sword that still looks like the $200 sword in jest. On a related note, I used to attend Sundance on the reservations. The two main ones that I went to had two very different approaches. The leader of one's claimed he wanted no white man technology because the native Americans didn't have it before the white man came. It was more traditional and therefore better. The other said that if they had technology, they would have used it. I don't know which was more correct, but I can tell you that I smelt better at the one that let me use deodorant and my job as fire keeper was a lot easier when I didn't have to cut trees with an axe. We still kept the important traditions but mixed in some modern to makes things easier for everyone. I think doing the same with katana is fine.
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Post by aussie-rabbit on Sept 8, 2015 13:18:07 GMT
Every day this place turns more like being SFI. As for the different eBay vendors, I really don't see Ryansword being that much crappier than the rest of them. I mean it's pretty hard to see much difference from one 300$ sword to another. Very true, at $2,600 however I would expect a much higher level of expertise and craftsmanship
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