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Post by lethalcurves on Dec 29, 2014 13:52:21 GMT
I have been offered a sword and would like peoples thoughts on this as it is my first Nihonto. my worries are the ill fitting hibaki , the strange shinny tsuka ito and just the general conition. also what would be the best price to pay for something like this? As im going to have a look at this mid week so need to know what to look for and offer really.     |
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Post by lethalcurves on Dec 29, 2014 13:59:20 GMT
Some more pics  |
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Post by lethalcurves on Dec 29, 2014 14:02:24 GMT
And another pic  |
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Post by lethalcurves on Dec 29, 2014 14:04:53 GMT
And another  |
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Post by randomnobody on Dec 29, 2014 16:20:37 GMT
Looks okay to me, but only "okay" and only given the photos we have. The blade is in rough shape, hard to track a hamon but I think I can see one and it looks okay. No glaringly obvious kizu that I can make out on my phone, but it would be nice to see the nakago and machi...
Habaki is a bit wonky, but as long as it's doing it's job I'd not worry too much about it.
As for the ito, my best guess is lacquer. Maybe even a relatively fresh coat.
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Post by LG Martial Arts on Dec 29, 2014 16:26:38 GMT
Can you take a picture of the mei (signature) under the tsuka? Also, how does the hada look? I'm also looking at pics on a phone, so I can't see all the details.
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Post by whitefeathers on Dec 29, 2014 17:02:50 GMT
I'm on my computer and the pictures show really worn out blade or rounded lines on the geometry. I don't know enough about these, but the blade just doesn't look "right" to me.
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Post by Anankai on Dec 29, 2014 18:04:23 GMT
I dunno, the blade looks fine to me. Just need reconditioning. A nice polishing job should do it and bring back the hamon. Tsuka-Ito looks to be lacquered canvas. Nice samegawa, simple koshirae. Don't know what's the mark on the fuchi though. Can't say what it's worth. Can you get pics of the Nakago?
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Post by lethalcurves on Dec 29, 2014 18:39:12 GMT
Here is another pic he sent me  |
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Post by lethalcurves on Dec 29, 2014 18:40:51 GMT
And another  |
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Post by lethalcurves on Dec 29, 2014 18:43:02 GMT
Well these are all pics the guy has sent but he is scared taking of the tsuka , he had it appraised by the above company with rubbing of the tang.
Dont know the blade looks like stainless to me machined made Gunto? But one would not know until it was in hand with tsuka removed also the blade looks to
Have pitting and i sure dont know how to polish blades and i dont have money to have it done properly.
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Post by lethalcurves on Dec 29, 2014 18:44:51 GMT
Also i cant work out if the rubbing is from the top of the tang or the bottom?
Also would one side of the tang have another inscription on it? Like a date?
He only lives 1 hour from me so what should i look for ?
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Post by Jussi Ekholm on Dec 29, 2014 19:24:35 GMT
The condition is pretty rough, so it's very hard to say much positive about it. Personally I would think this might not be economically the best buy, as you'll end up spending lot of money if you want to restore it. As for the smith, there are 10 generations and 1,2 and 5th are the most skilled ones. The generations span from c.1600 to c.1870. Bill Tagg who made the appraisal is UK dealer who is well thought of. You can see his company here: www.liverpoolmilitaria.com/home.phpAs for what to look, first thing would be your own feelings if you like it or not when seeing it. If you don't like it then don't buy it. :) Even though the seller might be scared about the tsuka removal, I think it's essential to see it. When you see the tang you can see if it matches the rubbing on the appraisal. Same number of holes, similar looking signature etc. My guess is that the koshirae has been put together and not made for this sword. However that is very common in the lower price range. The most important thing is if you like it or not for the price. |
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Post by lethalcurves on Jan 4, 2015 14:25:17 GMT
Thanks for the input , well i need to view the sword first and take the tsuka off myself as he is scared to do so.
Well i dont think it is a fake but it is rough.
So lets say the signature on the tang all matches and so on i will be replacing the wrap anyway and make a new tsuka core if neeeded.
Just hope the tang has not been cut down and used in world war 2.
Well the guy wants £600.00 for it but depends if i like it as the shine on the blade could make it look different.
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Post by LG Martial Arts on Jan 4, 2015 15:54:22 GMT
The picture of the tang rubbing looks like that of a katana, not a tachi or katana in suriage. Here's a link that should help you see what I mean: Manner of Blade Shortening (SURIAGE). Good luck with the purchase. You should also consider joining something like the Nihonto Message Board and get acquainted with true nihonto. One thing of note though: the members there can be a bit abrasive, especially since the board is dedicated to the study and preservation of genuine nihonto, so they tend to discourage other types of discussions/non-Japanese swords. |
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Post by lethalcurves on Jan 4, 2015 16:07:55 GMT
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Post by lethalcurves on Jan 4, 2015 16:22:24 GMT
Could that also be the reason the hibaki does not fit properly due to the fact the blade has been shortened?
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Post by LG Martial Arts on Jan 4, 2015 16:29:47 GMT
Thanks for the pics - imho, the tang is a match for the rubbing. It looks like the smaller mekugi ana was added at a later date to fit the tsuka in place now. The ito is not in an alternating wrap, and doesn't look like leather to me - might be some kind of canvas or other material. I'm far from a nihonto expert, hopefully you'll get a better answer from Jussi (tons of knowledge/books) or other members knowledgeable with nihonto. And like Jussi said in an earlier post
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Post by Anankai on Jan 4, 2015 19:04:41 GMT
Don't mean to correct you LG, but the lacquered canvas tsuka-ito do alternate. It's worn out a bit but still good. And the samegawa is quite nice I think.
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Post by randomnobody on Jan 4, 2015 19:36:11 GMT
In the first few pictures of the tsuka, back on the first page, we can see that the crossovers do alternate...but on the latest photo, the closeup of the menuki (what IS that supposed to be?) there is no alternation visible. Strange.
Otherwise, the nakago looks fine and original. Seems a fair price for the sword, though it needs some work.
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Even though the seller might be scared about the tsuka removal, I think it's essential to see it. When you see the tang you can see if it matches the rubbing on the appraisal. Same number of holes, similar looking signature etc. My guess is that the koshirae has been put together and not made for this sword. However that is very common in the lower price range.
