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Post by lethalcurves on Dec 22, 2014 14:19:21 GMT
Recently purchased some original Paul Chen miyamoto katana long sword and wakizashi. now along the wakizashi on one side of the hamon are marks what appear to be from the inside of the saya so essentially rub marks. now i was under the impression the hamon was the hardest part of the sword so is this a fake hamon or is it just an acid edge that can be completley removed to reveal the true hamon any help would be much appreciated. or can i just remove the marks with 2000 grit wet and dry?
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Post by whitefeathers on Dec 22, 2014 14:41:52 GMT
They add that frosty look to their hamons. You can polish off this etching stuff.
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Post by DigsFossils-n-Knives on Dec 22, 2014 15:41:36 GMT
I googled "Paul Chen miyamoto katana" and found a seller that claims "This katana's blade is forged in high carbon steel and the traditional clay tempering method was used to create a flexible yet strong blade with groove and a very nice hamonline."
I'm not sure what steel they use or if the claim of clay tempering is true or not. But if you feel adventurous and you dislike the rub marks then you might was to remove the frosted hamon and try to bring out the real hamon. If there is one.
Also, you need to figure out why your saya is rubbing your blade or you're back to square one.
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Post by lethalcurves on Dec 22, 2014 16:20:00 GMT
I googled " Paul Chen miyamoto katana" and found a seller that claims " This katana's blade is forged in high carbon steel and the traditional clay tempering method was used to create a flexible yet strong blade with groove and a very nice hamonline." I'm not sure what steel they use or if the claim of clay tempering is true or not. But if you feel adventurous and you dislike the rub marks then you might was to remove the frosted hamon and try to bring out the real hamon. If there is one. Also, you need to figure out why your saya is rubbing your blade or you're back to square one. Thanks for the advice , soo just a rub down with wet n dry should do it? what is the point of frosting the hamon if there is an original hamon under there? unless it is to hide the fact that there is not one under there?
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Post by Cottontail Customs on Dec 22, 2014 16:45:03 GMT
As mentioned, Hanwei does use an etching process to further enhance the real hamon on their swords. This "frosting" can be removed with a product called Mothers Mag and Aluminum Polish without damaging the rest of the polish. You can then either leave the blade as is, the hamon will be much more subtle at this point, or re-etch the blade using any number of methods. Here is the one I use or you can try this oneEither way, it should bring out the natural hamon without making it look overly frosty and should hold up much better to rubbing. -Josh
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Post by lethalcurves on Dec 22, 2014 17:28:31 GMT
As mentioned, Hanwei does use an etching process to further enhance the real hamon on their swords. This "frosting" can be removed with a product called Mothers Mag and Aluminum Polish without damaging the rest of the polish. You can then either leave the blade as is, the hamon will be much more subtle at this point, or re-etch the blade using any number of methods. Here is the one I use or you can try this oneEither way, it should bring out the natural hamon without making it look overly frosty and should hold up much better to rubbing. -Josh Hello Josh And thanks for the reply , so if i understand correctly what you are doing is removing the overly done frosting with mothers mag polish , then re acid etching but more in a subtle way with the lemon juice method. so is it a rule of thumb that the hamon is the same pattern underneath the frosting? Dont get me wrong i do like to see the hamon but kore in its natural state , than over enthisised with acid. thanks again for the tips
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Post by lethalcurves on Dec 22, 2014 17:30:27 GMT
I googled " Paul Chen miyamoto katana" and found a seller that claims " This katana's blade is forged in high carbon steel and the traditional clay tempering method was used to create a flexible yet strong blade with groove and a very nice hamonline." I'm not sure what steel they use or if the claim of clay tempering is true or not. But if you feel adventurous and you dislike the rub marks then you might was to remove the frosted hamon and try to bring out the real hamon. If there is one. Also, you need to figure out why your saya is rubbing your blade or you're back to square one. Thank you , well i like to display my blades on a rack out of the saya so should be ok once all polished but , the lord only know how i would rectify the issue as it is more than likely epoxy from were the two pieces have been bonded together or may e it is trees sap?
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Post by Cottontail Customs on Dec 22, 2014 18:34:01 GMT
Hello Josh And thanks for the reply , so if i understand correctly what you are doing is removing the overly done frosting with mothers mag polish , then re acid etching but more in a subtle way with the lemon juice method. so is it a rule of thumb that the hamon is the same pattern underneath the frosting? Dont get me wrong i do like to see the hamon but kore in its natural state , than over enthisised with acid. thanks again for the tips If you click the bold words in my post above you will see two different tutorials, the first one shows before and after pics. The Hanwei etching tends to have the same basic shape as the hamon underneath but does mask much of the finer details that could be brought out by polishing or etching with vinegar/lemon. You can also try a few of the methods used in this video to really make a hamon pop. Just remember that not all methods and chemicals work the same with all steels and blades. -Josh
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Post by lethalcurves on Jan 17, 2015 21:21:55 GMT
So just a little update , i have started removing the hamon with autosol which is work amazingly well. BUT! Not all the marks have removed , it would appear there is basically one very shallow , very think scratch basically Along the hamon. You can only just about feel it with your nail. Would starting at 1500 grit wet n dry up to 2500 remove this and then polish the blade and then attempt the acid etch , would this be ok? It is actually only along the omote side.
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Post by adamthedrummer on Jan 19, 2015 1:46:18 GMT
Honestly... A full repolish may be needed. You can try a more aggressive polish like metal glo and see how that goes. If it doesn't do the trick... Polish time... Uhhggg... I hate polish time.
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Post by lethalcurves on Jan 19, 2015 14:10:05 GMT
Can i not just put some wet n dry on a block of wood and run it along the hamon! Obviously with lots of water and what not
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Post by adamthedrummer on Jan 19, 2015 23:18:39 GMT
You can try it... But generally I don't think you will have much luck ... You can mess up geometry really easily... And you'll need to polish both sides of the blade or it will look weird. If you can stay off the shinogi and only do the hamon... It might work out.. But you'll probably have to do both sides... And likely will need to do at least a few high grits. Removing hardened metal is harder than you might think with super fine grit... So I would recommend the metal glo route first.
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Post by lethalcurves on Jan 19, 2015 23:48:48 GMT
So is metal glo very abrasive? As im not talking about those surface scuffs , this is a scratch you can just about feel with your finger nail
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Post by Adrian Jordan on Jan 20, 2015 3:15:37 GMT
Not real abrasive, no. It won't take out scratches. For a scratch that deep you'll need paper or stones to do that, and you'll likely have to redo the blade to get it even again.
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Post by lethalcurves on Jan 20, 2015 11:34:18 GMT
Redo the blade? As in sharpen it?
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Post by adamthedrummer on Jan 20, 2015 12:54:26 GMT
I think repolish Adrian means. I tried to remove some scratches when I scuffed up the hamon on a 1095 dh blade. Ended very badly. Required a total repolish. And the blade never looked as good as it did when new. So I would suggest just living with the scratches... Or learning to repolish on a cheap blade first. The shinogi and yokote are the tricky spots.
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Post by lethalcurves on Jan 20, 2015 15:00:24 GMT
Yes Adam the marks are no where near either of those areas , i will take pics , litteraly in the middle of the hamon and along the edge Well if i get most of them out i will be happy , im starting with 800 wet n dry , then 1000 , then , 1500 then 2000. , then 2500 , then metal glo and then auto sol
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Post by Adrian Jordan on Jan 20, 2015 15:41:45 GMT
Polish it, yes. If the scratch is deep enough to feel, then paste won't cut it. Taking it out with paper or stones will leave a finish that is different than the rest of the blade. You could mask off the scratch to minimize the area where the disturbance will be, but there will be at least a small area that doesn't match the rest of the blade. If you want it all even again then you will need to do a repolish to blend it in.
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Post by lethalcurves on Jan 20, 2015 15:43:59 GMT
So even after lots of polishing and paste , then i will be vinegar etching it will that not blend it in?
Also what gets rid of vinegar when using it warm to etch? Just normal glass cleaner?
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pgandy
Moderator
Senior Forumite
Posts: 10,296
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Post by pgandy on Jan 20, 2015 16:50:58 GMT
Common baking soda (sodium carbonate) will do it. Mix with water.
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