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Post by atrixnet on Sept 10, 2014 15:04:19 GMT
Would you buy a spring steel, through-tempered blade? Tough as nails right? Why would you, or why would you not? For example: kultofathena.com/product.asp?ite ... Ring+Theme |
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Post by greypilgrim on Sept 10, 2014 16:10:46 GMT
Thru hardened spring steel is perfectly fine for a "using sword".
They are generally not as fancy as a differentially hardened blade.
DH will have a real more or less visible temper line while a TH blade won't.
TH tend to take less damage with a botched cut.
I own three katana. Two are TH. The other one is an antique display piece.
Hope this helps,Kenny
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Post by crazywolf on Sept 10, 2014 16:29:56 GMT
my first was a cheness spring steel and it forgave a lot of bad hits and it's the one I hand people who come to my house and want to try their hand at cutting.no bends no nicks and a great cutter kind of plain but with a little mothers it looks like brand new.so as far as I'm concerned lots of plus and few minuses .
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Post by atrixnet on Sept 10, 2014 17:09:06 GMT
Hey thanks greypilgrim and crazywolf. This kind of confirms my thoughts. Among the circles of the less-knowledgeable (regarding katana and nihonto) the much touted cold steel japanese swords are regarded as the toughest, meanest katanas around. And they're just spring steel, through-tempered! Yet there's no denying that they do live up to their reputation. They can take a great deal of abuse, and dish out even more, while remaining sharp -- sharpness being the signature of any cold steel product. So yes I'm considering a quality, low-cost spring steel katana at some point, for the /exact/ reasons mentioned by you two. Great beater sword and definitely it would be the one I'd want visitors to handle. Don't touch my katana!  Any particular spring steel katanas you would like to recommend? |
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Post by crazywolf on Sept 10, 2014 18:52:05 GMT
cheness are good also look at the raptor line another group of tough swords also ronin dojo pro I have at least one of each of these and they take a licking and keep going.while not all are spring steel they are as a group tuff and good cutters.and that's what I look for
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Post by greypilgrim on Sept 10, 2014 19:15:19 GMT
Cold Steel has the advertising but tend to be way overpriced for what you actually get.
Ronin Dojo Pro, H.Raptor or practical line,Dynasty Forge Musha all have a solid reputation and a strong following.
SBG store, Kult Of Athena, Trueswords are trusted vendors I've used. I'll price shop KoA first. Be sure to keep checking the forum classified ads too.
Kenny
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Post by atrixnet on Sept 10, 2014 19:26:50 GMT
Cheness you say? *opens new google tab in chrome...*
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Post by atrixnet on Sept 10, 2014 19:28:57 GMT
Indeed their advertisements are compelling. I read something here on the forum a few days ago that "demystified" the things they were actually showing. It was interesting to see the actual technical critique of the message that cold steel is putting out there.
And as chance would have it, I'm perusing Kult of Athena right now actually...
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Post by Adrian Jordan on Sept 10, 2014 20:03:25 GMT
Yes, spring steel works well for a sword. I'll add the Dynasty Forge Musha to the line of hopefuls. Kult of Athena sometimes has them. If you decide to purchase a Cheness, I implore you to do so via the SBG Store. Lately there are some dispiriting examples of poor quality control and customer service. They released this statement on what you can expect in one of their swords and what they consider acceptable. Some of what they deem okay would have a sword in the trash from another forge. www.chenessinc.com/expect.htmSome of it seems reasonable, until you receive a sword with a completely dull edge or a bend9or bends) and CS tells you that they find that an acceptable level of quality to them. By buying through the SBG Store you are protected from having to keep a lemon, and can return, exchange or get a refund for a bad piece. The down side is that there is an international transaction fee, or at least there was when I ordered mine a few years ago. I think mine was $8 or $9. If it seems like I don't like Cheness, I really actually do. I have a Kaze and it's pretty great, and I got to cut with a Tenchi ko-katana and I want one now so bad I can taste it, hahaha. I just have an issue with some of their newer policies that are not in the best interest of their customers and thus recommend caution. |
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Post by atrixnet on Sept 10, 2014 20:41:34 GMT
All noted, Adrian (can I call you Adrian?)
If I go that route I'll certainly use the SBG store. Very good advice, thank you.
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Post by Adrian Jordan on Sept 10, 2014 21:31:42 GMT
Absolutely, and it's my pleasure.
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Post by uchiha998 on Sept 17, 2014 13:11:14 GMT
Actually that Dynasty Forge Musha is not what a lot of people thing of as "spring steel". Many consider the spring steels to be either 9260 or 5160. I believe this is because those are used to make actual springs. Now many of us here would consider any sword with a "spring temper" a spring steel sword. However it is hard to tell sometimes when a sword really has been spring tempered or when it is just a buzz word used by the company to make the product sound better. So I'm just saying don't worry to much about what is or isn't spring steell.
Certainly, the DF Musha is one of the best TH swords you can get overall. It has much nicer fittings and better tsukamaki than a Cheness. They are made in the same forge as the Cold Steel katana. Cold Steel, imo is quite overrated. The CS swords I've used were heavy and horribly balanced. Not the slightest bit graceful at all. The DF Musha was better handling but it was still a heavy sword with tip-heavy blade.
Honestly the toughest and best TH katana out there are the Hanwei Raptor, being the toughest and its a good cutter. but it does have typical Hanwei shortcomings of its price range. Such as the axe-handle tsuka. The other katana is the HSTS Tsunami, it super tough, lightweight, well balanced and has the best fittings and wrap you will find on a production katana outside HSTS.
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slav
Senior Forumite
Posts: 818
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Post by slav on Sept 17, 2014 15:29:56 GMT
Of course I would! I supply them! vv
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Deleted
Deleted Member
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Post by Deleted on Sept 17, 2014 19:24:06 GMT
Actually, while i like and own some of them, CS swords are made of 1055 or 1060 TH steel, not spring steel like 5160, 6150 or 9260. Greetings! Personally i like my 5160 blades the most!
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Post by Arthur Dayne on Sept 17, 2014 20:48:46 GMT
I personally love 5160 and 9260 through hardened to a spring temper as well. Very straight forward and low maintenance as in never have to worry about the blade taking a set and scratches on the blade become a complement of sorts rather than blemish as on DH katana.
With your mind off the hamon and scratches that may distract from the polish you have less things to worry about and more to appreciate.
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Post by aussie-rabbit on Sept 17, 2014 23:50:58 GMT
Some points to remember-
spring steel is an alloy containing steel along with small amounts of other elements, these include, silicon, manganese, Chromium, molybdenum and so on. Spring steel was invented in the late 1800's.
"Plain" steel can be treated to behave like a spring ie. "spring tempered" but is not of itself "spring steel".
Common spring steels include 5155, 5160, 9255, 9260 and 301 stainless.
Note. before running off to order a 301 stainless sword the material is not suitable for our purposes, it will not harden much above 45 rockwell.
Sandivik X2 CrNiMoN 25-7-4 could be the holy grail of sword materials but is difficult to work as well as expensive.
L6 Tool Steel is another candidate often used to make mill bandsaws and the like however it rusts quickly.
Ergo, all steel can be made "springy" - true spring steel is an alloy steel that includes other elements to increase it's ability to return to "true" along with such things as "toughness", "resistance to wear" etc.
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Post by uchiha998 on Sept 18, 2014 13:03:55 GMT
Thanks aussie that was what i was trying to point out, but your explanation is much better and more informative.
So then do L6 katana rust easily? Say one from MAS or Hanwei for instance?
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Post by atrixnet on Sept 18, 2014 16:43:40 GMT
"Take a set"... is this just another way of saying it been done got bended and is stuck crookeder than a dog's hind leg?
Appreciate the insights re scratches. Good points.
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Post by atrixnet on Sept 18, 2014 16:46:16 GMT
Greetings to you! What makes the 5160 your favorite?
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Post by atrixnet on Sept 18, 2014 16:56:46 GMT
Ah there it is. The Bainite. It keeps coming up in my conversations more frequently it seems. Twice as expensive as a quality 1060 DH blade. And yet offering more of what we all want. It's "springy", and it's tough+scratch resistent, and yet it's well-hardened when tempered, strong, and can hold edge. It's strong enough to produce a great cutter and still include a bo-hi for lightness. Yes, from what I read it does require more upkeep and rusts/tarnishes if not cared for. But in my mind that's a small price to pay for the benefit you get. I just wish it was a smaller price to pay in order to acquire it. *sigh*
Question on my mind lately has been, what do you get in terms of benefit by using spring steel in a katana and then DH tempering it? How does it perform in comparison to a T10 or 1060 DH blade? We already know that TH spring steel is very tough... but what about DH? Is it done? If so, what benefits do you gain, and what penalties do you pay?
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