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Post by Deleted on Sept 18, 2014 20:00:43 GMT
Money for value; see Hanweis Tinker line for example, or the Raptor katanas.
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Post by aussie-rabbit on Sept 19, 2014 0:40:44 GMT
Not easily, they are just more prone to rust than other steel, if you keep any sword clean and oiled you will have no problems, same goes for environment, if you live near the sea or in high humidity then any steel will rust more readily, so you just need to be aware of these things.
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Post by aussie-rabbit on Sept 19, 2014 0:48:32 GMT
:lol: I'm sure most will agree.
Sure, the Cheness 9260 Kaze is DH, I have an earlier one and it's great! with spring steels the hamon is not as pronounced but they are a great cutter, many spring steel swords can be had either DH or TH, potentially the harder edge will stay sharper longer, the down side is resharpening takes more time. :roll:
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Post by atrixnet on Sept 19, 2014 1:44:11 GMT
how interesting that you would bring up the Kaze right now. I have been reading about that sword. Lots of comparison to the PPK XL. Not sure where i would buy. Cult of Athena does not have it. Does that sword have a bo-hi? I'll be googling around to see if I can find out. Apparently it is stated to be more durable and forgiving, and yet it is still differentially hardened! Big bonus! I just don't know about the quality of the fittings, or the sharpness, or niku/geometry. Update: SBG says it's sharp, but the fittings are "humble" sbg-sword-store.sword-buyers-guide.com/Kaze.html
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Post by Adrian Jordan on Sept 19, 2014 2:18:48 GMT
I have a Kaze. It doesn't have a bo-hi, and there is really no comparison to the PPK XL at all. The blade is very thick and fairly tip-heavy, and it is not particularly sharp. I'd say that the durability is on par with a decent 1060 blade. Most of the benefits that you get with a spring steel like 9260(namely flexibility) are minimized in the DH process. I like the tsuka shape, and the tsuka core and saya are both carved very well, but the ito does not alternate and the fuchi and kashira are, to me, very ugly. They craftsmanship on them is adequate, I just don't like the nugget design. The tsuba is mild steel(good) and attractive, but not fitted all that well. The seppa are kind of garbage. While I wouldn't say that it's bad, you can get somewhat superior quality at similar prices. I would also recommend ordering via the SBG Store, as the quality control and return/exhange policy at Cheness leaves something to be desired.
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Post by atrixnet on Sept 19, 2014 16:28:31 GMT
Well thanks for the reality check! How would you rate Ronin Katana offerings against the XL? I "discovered" this line of swords re-reading info at the SBG store last night. They come with the highest recommendation. I can't help but wonder why. I'm kind of leaning to a TH 9260 right now, because you can put a bo-hi on one without making it fragile as glass. SlavEdge has a nicely priced one, and even with the bo-hi they have no trouble cutting 1,1/2" oak dowels. HOLY SMOKES. (pics and vid on their facebook page). So I guess in order of purchase likelihood (least to greatest) I'm considering the PPK XL Light, a RoninKatana, a SlavEdge 9260 www.slavedgeswordworks.com/swords/slavsword-luxI can't find any reviews of SlavEdge swords though--not here in the review index--not on the web. That makes me a little uneasy. I'd like to see what other owners think. Am I overthinking this? Update: if you search for SlavEdge Reviews, google returns a bunch of links to this forum that aren't reviews at all. After that the quality of information starts to degrade until you find yourself on "that part" of the google results: www.yellowpages.com/muskogee-ok/auto-slavedge
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Post by Adrian Jordan on Sept 19, 2014 19:18:15 GMT
The Ronin's aren't as beefy(physically) as the Cheness. They are good medium to light-heavy cutters. The fittings are very nice. The ito is often kind of loose. Not enough to really effect performance, though. While the Cheness will be tougher(assuming that you get a good one) the Ronin would be my choice over it.
Again, no real comparison to the Hanwei. The geometry on the Ronin is more traditional and robust.
A bo-hi, as long as it is carved well and not too deep, won't have a huge effect on the durability on the blade. I wouldn't take a bo-hi blade to real heavy targets, but you don't need to baby it either.
SlavEdge is very new as a vendor. Slav himself is a longstanding and well respected member here. He wanted to start a line where he had more control over what got put out. His swords seem very nice, and I would elect to get one rather than one of the others right now.
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Post by atrixnet on Sept 19, 2014 19:20:53 GMT
By that you mean you'd go with the SlavEdge? Just clarifying...
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Post by Adrian Jordan on Sept 19, 2014 19:52:19 GMT
Yeah. That's not to say that the other two are inferior, I've never personally handled one of Slav's swords, but I like what I see with Slav's stuff.
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Post by atrixnet on Sept 19, 2014 19:57:55 GMT
Well, he's going to get some business soon. If the product is good, I'll do a real nice writeup and video review. If not, well Slav can have it back and I'll buy one of these: goo.gl/9Q56RcI'm very excited to let the SlavEdge deluxe speak for itself. I'll be going after this look, if I can get it (photo by SlavEdge) goo.gl/sLjbW0 I don't think I'll be disappointed.
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Post by aussie-rabbit on Sept 20, 2014 2:44:29 GMT
When you do a write-up always try to write as you see it, take pictures and tell us what you think I have not handled a SlavEdge here in Aussie yet but I also like what I see.
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Post by atrixnet on Sept 20, 2014 3:14:17 GMT
Oh there will be plenty of photos to be sure.
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Post by Robert in California on Sept 20, 2014 6:35:02 GMT
The Hanwei Shinto is not the Hanwei 25th Anniversary Shinto. Personally, I would go for the latter when one comes up for sale, not the former. RinC
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Post by atrixnet on Sept 21, 2014 3:26:37 GMT
Thanks for pointing out the distinction. I honestly had no idea! Really thanks!
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Post by Billybob on Oct 1, 2014 13:44:10 GMT
I purchased a hanwei raptor nanbo and one week later stumbled across slavedge. If I could buy my first katana again I would buy the slavedge standard. I wanted a th spring steel with bo-hi.
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Post by Germanic on Oct 11, 2014 1:07:34 GMT
Absolutely.
My understanding of ancient Katana production was predicated on the fact that the tamahagane iron sand was relatively impure and required the elaborate techniques to purify the steel so that it produced a homogeneous blade.
We also know that pattern welding and "damascus" techniques were known in Europe well before Japan ever practiced it. It's a useful technique for obvious reasons.
However, I am of the opinion that modern swords utilizing "spring steel" are probably on par with or superior to ancient steel swords. The technology we have allows far greater control of temperature, humidity, etc.
Also, we are able to control our steel production so that it is relatively pure compared to the steel utilized by ancients. This is only my opinion and understanding, and I would love if I was wrong so that I could learn something and that somebody could correct me. (srs)
I direct you to Cold Steel's "Warrior Katana" which is quite affordable, yet apparently heavier than the original Samurai used:
Destruction Testing starting at 3:50
It is worth mentioning that the average "Samurai" was 5'6" at the most and 5'3" average, yet we continue to use swords with similar lengths, dimensions, POB, etc despite the fact that our average height is quite a bit more. If we were to scale up Katanas to our current anthropometry, Katanas would be similar in length to Longswords and have a wider, thicker, stronger blade.
That's just my opinion, though.
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Post by atrixnet on Oct 11, 2014 1:29:28 GMT
I would LOVE to see such a weapon. :shock: Totes wud luv!
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Post by Germanic on Oct 11, 2014 1:35:17 GMT
Do I sense sarcasm?
Srsly, do I? Because I don't know if you're being sarcastic or not. I am being serious when I say that historical Katana lengths are similar now to what "Samurai" utilized. But it's also true that most people are of an average height that is greater than hundreds of years ago. If you bring into account our limb segment length and weight difference, it would stand to reason that a larger individual would be able to skillfully utilize a proportionally larger Katana.
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Post by atrixnet on Oct 11, 2014 2:44:46 GMT
No sarcasm. Srsly srs bsnss! Dead serious! Who wouldn't like to see that? And upon seeing it, who wouldn't snatch it and run away with it screaming "MIIIIIIINE!!!"
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Post by Timo Nieminen on Oct 11, 2014 5:44:25 GMT
It isn't specifically any problem with Japanese iron ores, but a general problem with bloomery furnaces (the tatara is a bloomery furnace). The reduction of the ore to metallic iron takes place with the iron in the solid state - it doesn't melt. So there's lots of slag trapped in the bloom (the spongy iron-and-slag). Heat it and hammer it and fold it, to get rid of most of the slag. So folded steel comes with the bloomery. It's folded, but not really pattern welding, since it's a single steel. You do get a grain pattern. This technique is as old as the bloomery furnace, so dates back to 1000BC or so. Iron-making appears to turn up in Japan only in the 6th century AD, so they were about 1500 years behind.
You can run the furnace at a higher temperature, and keep it at that temperature for a long time, and you can get steel, by diffusion of the carbon into the iron in the bloom. You don't end up with a uniform carbon content, so the pieces of the bloom are sorted by carbon content. Then you can do iron body, steel edge, etc. That's the Japanese technique.
Or you can hammer the iron into thin strips, and carburise in a forge, and then weld the strips together (piled construction). This goes back to very early steel technology (500BC or so, in Europe), and you could call it "pattern welding" (but many people wouldn't).
Proper pattern welding, as opposed to folded steels, or piled or welded edge construction, dates to about 2nd century AD in Europe.
Rather than carburising strips or making bloomery steel, other steel-making technologies will give a purer product (with less slag), and no/less need for folding. The earliest such technology was crucible steel, which appears in India a few centuries BC. Next, decarburisation of cast iron, China, about 1st century BC.
This last process is essentially the Bessemer process, our modern steelmaking method. Yes, modern steels are better in that they're purer. More importantly, we know what we're doing, theoretically, so we can consistently produce steel of a particular type, with particular properties.
5'4" is about average adult male Japanese height from late prehistory through to Medieval. I expect that Edo period heights were much the same. So I'd expect quite a few samurai taller than 5'6". But yes, larger modern people should use longer katana (and often do). The length of a katana is limited by the length of blade that can be drawn (readily) with the sword worn at the waist. A longsword, worn differently, can be drawn as easily despite a much longer blade. So "modern sized" katana would be bigger than old katana, but not as big as longswords. Note that tachi, worn rather like many longswords, were, on average, longer than katana.
The katana is also essentially a single-handed sabre with a long handle. If it was to be exclusively (or predominantly) two-handed, like a longsword, then it could be bigger and longsword weight. But it maintained its one-handed function. There were longer swords in Japan intended for specialised two-handed use, but they weren't worn as everyday sidearms like katana. It isn't that Japanese people were too small to use larger swords, but that larger swords are less convenient sidearms.
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