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Post by aussie-rabbit on Jan 15, 2015 16:05:14 GMT
Eastern philosophical concepts are often wasted on westerners due to different cultural perspectives...
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Post by Deleted on Jan 15, 2015 19:07:47 GMT
"No mind" doesn't mean you're an empty husk without thoughts. You still think and assess everything that matters, also the environment. No mind refers to not having thoughts about fear, anger, envy and other subjective notions. In essence, you become a computed machine which calculates variables and determines the best response to the situation based on what it knows. There is no room for things like emotions, ego and other thoughts that don't directly contribute to assessing and responding to the situation at hand. Compare to a "gaming mode" on a computer where all unnecessary processes are ended so it can invest all of its memory to playing the game. "Too many minds, mind of sword, mind of people watching, mind of opponent, too many minds. No mind. No mind." That really sounds like he's talking about not thinking about or assessing the environment or the opponent or any of those other factors. You disregard what's going on around you, or where you're walking and you're going to bite it from someone who isn't zoned out and is able to take advantage of the fact that you aren't paying attention. If you're dealing with another guy with a sword who wants to stab or cut you, then the task at hand is not getting stabbed or cut and either getting away from him or stopping him, those two concerns prioritized according to individual values. You're not going to accomplish either one without knowing where your own weapon is and paying attention to what that other guy is doing at a minimum.
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LiamBoyle
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Fechtmeister the Clueless of H.A.S.C.
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Post by LiamBoyle on Jan 15, 2015 19:39:10 GMT
Eastern philosophical concepts are often wasted on westerners due to different cultural perspectives... Hopefully that clarifies the subject ![:)](//storage.forums.net/forum/images/smiley/smiley.png) Yes! It's like trying to explain "Qi" to someone, where you have one word that refers to multiple concepts from "breath" and "energy" up to posture, mindfulness, biofeedback, neurofeedback, to several biological functions of body systems... This is not easy to do. That being said I agree that the concept of being "in the zone" is probably the best way to explain "no mind" to some nit familiar with using Asian concepts as a frame of reference.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 15, 2015 19:41:51 GMT
Right, and the guy in the zone is aware of where the other players are, where the ball is, where the net is, and how to get there. There's a lot of calculation going on, even if the player can't articulate it.
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Post by mindfulloffire on Jan 15, 2015 19:54:19 GMT
at some point the calculation becomes automatic, then you are mindless ![:)](//storage.forums.net/forum/images/smiley/smiley.png)
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LiamBoyle
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Fechtmeister the Clueless of H.A.S.C.
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Post by LiamBoyle on Jan 15, 2015 19:58:43 GMT
Right, and the guy in the zone is aware of where the other players are, where the ball is, where the net is, and how to get there. There's a lot of calculation going on, even if the player can't articulate it. This is absolutely true. When you have gone from calculating all these things on a conscious level to where the calculations are happening without effort on an unconscious or subconscious level - that would be "no mind."
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Post by Shirayuki on Jan 15, 2015 23:13:04 GMT
"No mind" doesn't mean you're an empty husk without thoughts. You still think and assess everything that matters, also the environment. No mind refers to not having thoughts about fear, anger, envy and other subjective notions. In essence, you become a computed machine which calculates variables and determines the best response to the situation based on what it knows. There is no room for things like emotions, ego and other thoughts that don't directly contribute to assessing and responding to the situation at hand. Compare to a "gaming mode" on a computer where all unnecessary processes are ended so it can invest all of its memory to playing the game. "Too many minds, mind of sword, mind of people watching, mind of opponent, too many minds. No mind. No mind." That really sounds like he's talking about not thinking about or assessing the environment or the opponent or any of those other factors. You disregard what's going on around you, or where you're walking and you're going to bite it from someone who isn't zoned out and is able to take advantage of the fact that you aren't paying attention. If you're dealing with another guy with a sword who wants to stab or cut you, then the task at hand is not getting stabbed or cut and either getting away from him or stopping him, those two concerns prioritized according to individual values. You're not going to accomplish either one without knowing where your own weapon is and paying attention to what that other guy is doing at a minimum. It was in broken English. What he probably meant was not to fear (or have other obsessive thoughts) your opponent's blade for this fear is an emotion which inhibits your decision making. To paraphrase another shoddy movie: "fear is not real. Danger though is very real but fear is your mind telling you what may or may not every happen at all". Mushin isn't about spacing out, on the contrary. It's a state of calm yet incredibly intense concentration. It's not a sleepish, zombie like state but more of a pure in-the-now oriented mind. Explaining this is difficult to those who are not familiar with it or with Zen but the best analogy is the one I made about a "gaming mode" for your computer which ends all unnecessary tasks so maximum memory is available to playing the game. Does this make the computer worse? On the contrary, it becomes better at playing the game.
It allows a Kyudo master to hit a tiny target 30 yards away blindly or a swordsman to ignore pain, cold, heat, people dying around him, shouts, screams, blood and guts being spilled, chaos and contradictory signs and focus solely on the threats.
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Post by aussie-rabbit on Jan 16, 2015 1:09:23 GMT
"I must not fear. Fear is the mind-killer. Fear is the little-death that brings total obliteration. I will face my fear. I will permit it to pass over me and through me. And when it has gone past I will turn the inner eye to see its path. Where the fear has gone there will be nothing....only I will remain"
Dune
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Post by Deleted on Jan 16, 2015 12:10:03 GMT
“Be totally empty, embrace the tranquility of peace. Watch the workings of all creation, observe how endings become beginnings.”
All creatures in the universe return to the point where they began. Returning to the source is tranquility meaning submitting to what is and what is to be.”
Lao Tzu - Tao Te Ching, Verse 16
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Post by mindfulloffire on Jan 16, 2015 13:00:08 GMT
“Be totally empty, embrace the tranquility of peace. Watch the workings of all creation, observe how endings become beginnings.” All creatures in the universe return to the point where they began. Returning to the source is tranquility meaning submitting to what is and what is to be.” Lao Tzu - Tao Te Ching, Verse 16 anyone still confused on this matter should now sit down somewhere quiet and stare into space until you get there. you'll know you're there because you can feel everything in the universe and nothing at once.
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