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Post by Svante Nilsson on Jul 23, 2014 8:09:37 GMT
My suggestions for a tactical katana: Locking mechanism on the scabbard. So that you may run with it sheathed. Smallest, full katana size, 69 centimeters blade. Don't forget a hand guard, so avoid slippage when stabbing. ( i say this because many do forget it ) A rust resistant coating and water resistant handle. Think of a Kalashnikov gun type of concept. Can work no matter how much gunk you have in/on/around it. Water draining scabbard. TH hardened blade. Blade that can be sharpened to an angle, rather than traditionally. ( 40 degree total would be perfect ) Not overly heavy. 1,1 kilos max. Reinforced cutting point. You want it to pierce Kevlar. One piece type construction. "Indestructible". I am referring to the handle to blade, not the actual blade, ofc it can be destroyed... Make the grip grippy, even if its un-confortable on hands. A tactical katana should be used with gloves in a "tactical" setting anyway. I am out of suggestions but i hope you consider these. What do other forumites think about them? Nay or Yay?
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Kuya
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Post by Kuya on Jul 23, 2014 19:07:15 GMT
From what I've been told and researched, the smallest "full katana" size is two "shaku," which comes out to a little over 60 cm / under 61 cm... around 24 in.
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Post by Svante Nilsson on Jul 23, 2014 20:01:36 GMT
My mistake, i was under the impression that 69 was the smallest, seems to be the smallest Chinese makers do.
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Kuya
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Post by Kuya on Jul 23, 2014 20:41:14 GMT
Yeah, I had to custom order my 24 in. blade. I actually prefer the shorter ones, because Wakizashi's just aren't long enough, and the "standard" 28-29 in. blades are too long. Anyway, Slav, I look forward to seeing what you have in store as far as handles and guards for the tactical series.
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slav
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Post by slav on Jul 24, 2014 2:41:57 GMT
What do you guys think about something like this:
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Post by wazikan on Jul 24, 2014 2:49:49 GMT
I think you should offer a service to wrap swords like that. I have a kc nagi blade if you will take orders
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Post by Svante Nilsson on Jul 24, 2014 8:24:11 GMT
The grip is very nice, pretty much what i expected you to do. The Blade is a little short, looks like a Ko Katana ( i might be wrong, whats the length ? ). I see u put a knot at the end to serve as a "stopper" for the hand not to slip, i think a real guard would be better, and you could add the locking mechanism to it, so it would always stay locked in the sheath. What metal did you use for the blade and hardening? Do you intend on coating it for rust resistance, if so what did you have in mind. Otherwise thank you for the picture much appreciated.
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Kuya
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Post by Kuya on Jul 25, 2014 15:34:00 GMT
Personally, I don't like it. At the same time, it's different than other "tactical" style things, so perhaps there will be a market for it? The traditional style ito wrapping is just... old, and feels like it should just be on traditional and display pieces instead of tactical stuff.
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slav
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Post by slav on Jul 26, 2014 5:35:46 GMT
Thanks for the feedback. The design is somewhat based on similar tac-waks by custom smiths such as Wally Hayes. The blade is TH 9260, like our katanas. The traditional wrapping serves to provide excellent traction especially through gloves. Be aware that the wrap is fully soaked in epoxy so it is rock-hard like micarta, as is the paracord guard. I'm not sure a locking mechanism for a saya would be necessary, as I envision this kind of blade being best suited for a custom kydex sheath anyway. We definitely welcome more input!
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Paul
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Post by Paul on Jul 26, 2014 7:15:51 GMT
I quite like how this is turning out. For me I prefer a 26" blade and a 10" grip without a fuller. I'm also liking your grip treatment but I would like one change, a fitted and peened pommel that you could strike with. Not a euro type pommel, something integrated with the shape of the grip, a metal cap maybe pinned or peened on. The weight of a pommel would also help pull the POB back.
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Post by Madmartigen on Jul 26, 2014 8:30:01 GMT
In my opinion if this was given an actual bare nakago sticking out in the end if "tsuka" as it was in the tactical tanto, it would be fine for striking, no pommel neccessary (assuming the end would be shaped as in Slav's tactical tanto as well). Also in my opinion the tsuka - blade proportions are a bit blade shortish, I would move the tsuka beginning just three diamonds back, like attached. Of course I might be wrong - depending on blade length, weight and so forth. Attachments:
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Post by Svante Nilsson on Jul 26, 2014 11:11:00 GMT
I agree that something at the end of the grip for striking would be nice, to keep the cost down and avoid peening, why not just do it like the tanto? The tang was shaped in such a way and exposed and it could be used for striking, i remember first seeing the tanto and just loving that about it.
As for blade size standard would be best 27-28 inch, anybody can use that with a relative degree of comfort imho, 26 and that's to small for many, and above 28 and its to big for many, standard is best, especially for selling purposes! You want as many people to be able to use the product. Same for grip length, something standard (10-11 inch depending on blade lenght), not including the striking part. I know many will go : its a tac kat you don't want it to be to big, well sure, but if u want something manageable and truly tactical you would just for with a waki after all, 1 handed, smaller, lighter, u can have a handgun in your other hand, so as long as all three products will be available lets just go with a standard ("real") size katana.
Slav i didn't think about the kydex sheath, but its a great idea, given the sword is made to be rust resistant and the sheath water proof.
I'm torn between a fuller or not. Fuller makes it faster (Pob goes back) and lighter, that's definitely a good thing for something you don't want to burden you as much as possible and can be used with efficiency. No fuller makes the blade more resistant, doesn't make noise when used like a fullered blade, and will make for less places where gunk can get stuck to the blade, it also adds a bit of needed weight to what probably will be a light blade ( no guard ).
I would really like to hear about what people think is best in a tactical situation no-hi or hi.
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slav
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Post by slav on Jul 26, 2014 15:09:00 GMT
I did think about including an exposed skull-crusher pommel. Will reconsider it for future designs.
On this sample, the blade is 18" and the handle is about 10". I designed it this way so it could be used one or two-handed if necessary. The menuki are situated at the ideal spot for one-handed wielding. However if necessary one could always single-hand grip it lower, closer to the pommel, which would give you about 6" more reach for striking.
I wish you guys could handle this thing because I think you'd find that the size and proportions are pretty much perfect.
Currently working on no-hi version.
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Post by wazikan on Jul 26, 2014 15:23:16 GMT
I agree with your setup slav. A tac kat should be left in the wak or ko kat size. Ideally they should be able to be strapped to a pack
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Post by Svante Nilsson on Jul 26, 2014 15:24:58 GMT
That's really small... to small really. Could you consider making the no-hi version longer, like 27-28 inch blade and include the "skull crushing pommel"? That would be an instant buy for me. <3
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Kuya
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Post by Kuya on Jul 26, 2014 18:46:40 GMT
As I'm sure the end result of most blades... I'm guessing that these will be used to cut water bottles and all sorts of vegetation... and probably taken on camping trips, hunting, and wilderness hikes. Is the interior of the handle epoxied as well, to prevent/resist water damage and whatnot from rain and crossing/fishing/standing in a creek?
PS The thing at the end of the tanto version will further set this product apart from other "tactical" lines along with the ito.
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Post by frankthebunny on Jul 26, 2014 22:06:44 GMT
Before I offer my opinion (or rather, ramblings) I would just like to say that I support new suppliers and sources of katana born by trusted people who have been around and are experienced and trusted. I think it's great that SlavEdge is giving this a go.
Although I wouldn't consider myself very knowledgeable or experienced when it comes to the "tactical" field of swords and knives, I feel there should be a distinction between tactical looks and tactical function, not that a functionally tactical weapon wouldn't also look tactical. I think there should be at least a few basic requirements met to consider a weapon tactically functional. We often see that knives and swords under this category feature some of these characteristics: lighter, more compact, easier to draw/sheath, increased durability, resistance to the elements, easy to care for and maintain in the field, multi-functional, and compatible with other tactical gear such as packs and harnesses. Just to name some.
We also see many "tactical" knives and swords that are little more than paracord wrapped on the grip/nakago of an otherwise ordinary blade. Holes drilled through the grips, or handles simply skeletonized for the tac look are also plentiful. But do these features alone make the weapon functionally tactical? I guess it is also a matter of opinion and specific to what the needs of a particular person are in a particular situation.
I am usually not drawn to anything tactical looking but I do admit that I have been interested in certain items, like my camping/survival knife, which possess features that make sense for it's intended purpose. I have been tempted a few times to try out the Hanwei Tac Kat or Wak since it's advertised features made more sense to bring it camping or hiking than a more traditional sword. The only reason I haven't pulled the trigger is the lack of the need to actually bring a sword camping or hiking :lol:
I guess what I would ask is, will these swords be sold as functionally tactical weapons or just as "tactical" looking regular swords?
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Paul
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Post by Paul on Jul 26, 2014 22:30:53 GMT
Frank raises some good points about what makes a sword tactical in the first place.
I have to admit that I'm less interested in the tactical aspect and more interested the the grip change. I may get shot down for this but I'm not a fan of the traditional katana handles / grips. I know they have stood the test of time but I view the standard wood grips with wood pins and wrapped with whatever as the weak point of a katana. I'm really drawn to kats with these improved (to me) tactical grips that are less prone to splitting and cracking.
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Post by randomnobody on Jul 26, 2014 22:36:24 GMT
Just another opinion chiming in, but every time I hear "tactical sword" I think to myself, "aren't ALL swords, by necessity, tactical?" Swords carried by soldiers on battlefields of old were faced with the same conditions (dirt, mud, water, etc.) as people will claim a "tactical" weapon would need some special coating or assembly to face today, but they did so without any of these things, and mostly fared just fine except for those that broke from the actual fighting aspect of the whole battlefield thing. While it's neat, I guess, that so many companies now are jumping into super-plasma-coated blades with infinityrubber or whatever and integrated/locking this-and-thats...but if it ain't broke... That said, I feel like these swords, with the epoxied ito (as per the old school method of wear protection) will be more than adequate for any "rough" setting, camping or whatever. I would not, however, advise replacing your machete and/or axe with any sword at all, this one or any other "tactical" model. It's an aesthetic, to me, that is by nature functional in the same sense anything has been for centuries. Doesn't appeal to me, but there's a market, and anybody trying to break into this business has to make an effort to appeal to that market. Unfortunately, almost all "tactical swords" on the market now are pretty much the same: through-hardened spring steel with some kind of wear-resistant coating and micarta or some rubbery grip scales all in a kydex or fiberglass/plastic scabbard that sometimes locks, but rarely. Slav seems to be going for a more classical approach to the new trends, which is at least different. All that to say: "tactical" just means "designed for military use/campaign," no? Which part of [sword] is not, by that definition, "functionally tactical," then? Of course, everybody's free to ignore me on this.
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Post by Svante Nilsson on Jul 27, 2014 18:35:41 GMT
I like that slav is sticking close to a traditional katana's look, all the while improving it. I agree with Paul that a katana's biggest weakness is its handle just compared it to a euro sword... Slav is keeping the looks, and ditching the weakness, what could be better? As for all swords being tactical, of course they where, but take a look at how warfare was conducted back then, it was an organised and formalized affair, people would walk to battle, line-up and charge at each other (im obviously simplifying it but you get the point) and when all was said and done, survivors would go back to camp, check themselves and the gear, clean and fix themselves and the gear, eat and rest. I'm pretty sure if there grip had cracked, they would bin it, and have a spare one ( if not plenty ) to replace it with. The blood sweat and mud soaked wrap? They would remove and burn it after each battle, and just wrap a new one, wraps where not elaborate, they would just spiral it all the way up when in war, your not gonna use your precious time wrapping a sword when you could be resting, not to mention there is no added benefit... All these katana's we see today are what where considered back then "peace-time, show-peaces", they are functional, but not ideal if your waging war. What is tactical today? At its worse, its crawling day in and out in mud, in humid conditions, always on the move, equipped like a mule, the odd kill here and there and not pausing after it to get cleaned up(experiences and opinions might vary). Checking your gear has to be fast and efficient and if you can avoid having to do it, the better. I will also add that adding rust resistant coating's is nothing new, as soon as man was able to do it, he did. The earliest example of it was on a viking sword, that had been treated to mild stable rust, with the use of urine, to avoid it rusting as quickly as others. Other examples come to use from Portugal 15th century with black coating on navigator's swords. All the way up to nickel and silver plating in the 18th century for sabers. And i would wager a samurai of old, would be going crazy for slav's sword right now, given it was a little longer . I think that with the addition of the exposed tang butt as a pommel, the first example of sword slav showed us is already closest to perfection as possible to our modern tactical needs, its light, its resistant, can be used 1 hand or 2 ( it really is a cross between a waki and a ko ), and if he adds a plasma coating, wont rust quickly or need to be maintained as often, pair it with a kydex sheath and your done. I personally and others i speak with who enjoy katana's would love a none-fullered, longer standard version ( 28 inch ), with a grip to match (11 inch), and the exposed pommel. excuse me if my English is not the best
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