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Post by Deleted on Apr 10, 2009 21:08:42 GMT
The heat produced by a sander shouldn't affect temper on a true sword, though it will do a lot of damage to a wallhanger.
I've self-taught sharpening by hand, and have come up with the following system. Eeveryone has their own; just another option...
clean oil (I use a silicone spray) fine metal file, blade over knee, seated. Slide from hilt to point (vise will keep it in place if thats an issue) worked through the delivery state 35 degree or so angle w file, leaving approx 40-45 degree angle clean ceramic rod (again hilt to point) 2000 sandpaper (the almost smooth gray stuff)
Took about an hour or so from the delivery edge to what I was looking for, but I knew it was done when I knicked myself and wasnt sure it had cut until I put down the blade and took a closer look. When you cut yourself by accident, it looks like a deep paper cut and doesnt sting at all, it's probably good
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Post by Tom K. (ianflaer) on Apr 13, 2009 0:51:31 GMT
here's my personal endorsement on these belt sander (I have moved the info in these posts around to put all my tutorials in one place but all the info is still here).
I have one of these belt sanders with some 500 grit, 1200 grit and a leather stropping belt with compound. my swords are so sharp now it is just ridiculous, and the best thing is that because the belt bends to the correct apple-seed shape it is a strong edge. today (well yesterday since it is now 12:56 but anyway, TODAY I cut through a TWO tatami mats wrapped around a 1.75 inch diameter bamboo pole and there was barely any resistance. I cut a LOT of bamboo and tatami today, and by a lot I mean a handful of us cut our way through 4 BOXES of tatami. None of my swords that I sharpened with this belt sander have dulled in the slightest.
here's what happened today.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 26, 2009 7:39:31 GMT
Wow, that belt sander is fantastic. I need to get one. Thanks a lot for showing that, Tom. Your tutorial is awesome!
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Post by Deleted on May 3, 2009 17:49:39 GMT
Tom: I very well might have missed it in the video, or it might be obvious to anyone who actually has some experience sharpening, but which direction do you actually put the sword blade on the belt? So it's moving towards the edge you're sharpening, or towards the middle?
Sorry if this is rather obvious, but I'm a complete noob. ;D
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Post by Tom K. (ianflaer) on May 4, 2009 11:42:19 GMT
belt moves down and the edge of sword goes down too so belt moves across from center of blade towards the edge (like a strop)
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Post by Deleted on May 13, 2009 15:11:48 GMT
I've read the whole thread and thoroughly researched on the internet (that includes Angus Trim's thread on sharpening, the article of Tinker Pearce on his website, swords of valor's sharpening tutorial, wikipedia, etc.), but it seems that a question remains : what's the edge angle that we're shooting for in a European cutting and cut and thrust sword? Mr. Trim's article mentions that 60 degrees is too much ( www.myarmoury.com/talk/viewtopic.php?t=1980 ), but doesn't mention anything regarding the angle he uses. Now, chances are that the said angle depends on the type of European blade and whether or not your edge is of the appleseed type or with a secondary bevel, but there has to be some approximation to what we're aiming at, no? I checked the angle in one of my blades that came pre sharpened from MRL (secondary bevel), the Late Euro bastard sword, and it seems to go along the lines of + - 40 degrees, and it's stupidly sharp, but I don't know how accurate or tough such an angle is (though it cuts pool noodles as if it was nothing). I also checked the angle on my Cold Steel warrior katana, and it's more like 25-30, but the comparison is kind of unfair, as it's not a Euro type blade, and it has single bevel edge that's supported by the remainder of the blade (it's pretty tough) I ask this because I recently bought a Lansky sharpener, kinda similar to an Accusharp, that has an angle of 40-45 degrees and I plan on using it on some of my blades that already have a secondary bevel edge but with an angle that's too wide (I'd say 60-70 degrees), thus making the edge kinda blunt (as in I can put my palm on the edge with some pressure, go back and forth and have nothing at all, and I can't cut pool noodles even if I swing like Babe Ruth), but I don't want to end up with a stupidly sharp edge that will roll the moment I cut something harder than a milk jug. Any ideas? Federico
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Post by chrisosborne on May 15, 2009 22:45:06 GMT
It's certainly true that a good quality belt grinder in the hands of an experienced craftsman is an excellent tool and capable of doing extremely fine detail work. One need only look at one of Rick Barrett or Howard Clark's bare blades in their belt finish. The geometry is super crisp and the whole blade looks as though it were cut out with a laser. That said, a belt grinder and sword combination can be very dangerous in the hands of someone who might not be experienced with them, and they will certainly ruin your new sword in a hurry. And yes, a belt grinder will quickly heat the blade edge hot enough, depending on the grit belt, to a high enough temperature to destroy the heat treat. Always keep a barrel of water next to the grinder and when the blade feels hot to the touch just dip it into the bucket. The best thing I've found for honing the edge on a sword of any kind is a diamond file. When used properly it will leave a nearly invisible and toothy edge, just what you want. Work the file towards the edge in a light feathering type motion. Angle is something you just have to learn with experience. Work on something you don't mind not being pretty first.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 16, 2009 20:42:17 GMT
One thing I use and have not seen mentioned yet is a pressed cardboard wheel. I use this after my belt grinder leaves an almost invisible wire edge. The wheel is approx. 10 inches in diameter, and about 3/4 inch wide. I run it on a 1/3 HP electric motor that turns at 3400 RPM. Once the wheel is spinning, I take a bar of diamond compound in wax, and apply it firmly to the wheel edge to coat it. I have used this to sharpen everything from Cheness Katanas to some swords that some might consider wall hangers, to kitchen knives, axes, even lawn mower blades. When I am done, they all shave hair The good steel will shave hair so slick you don't even feel it ;D You can buy this equipment from any kifemaker supply. I have many blades, If I tried to sharpen them all without power tools, I'd die an old man before I ever got done
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Post by Deleted on Aug 25, 2009 22:30:05 GMT
How to go about sharpening and polishing your swords is something that comes up alot here, and with good reason. We all want our blades to be sharp and clean, but actually manipulating the shape/finish of the blade is a plunge few want to take without some guidance. As a result, it seems there is a new thread on the subject every couple of weeks. For future newcomers, I thought it would be a good idea to compile some links answering those questions. I did a little digging and came up with a few threads that cover most of the usual questions. First off SBG Main Page Guide Lots' of info here Shootermike's Sharpening Technique (scroll down a few posts) Hybrid PolishingCleaning a KatanaRemoving Rust UnpolishingGuys please add anything you think should be included. I've asked Paul to sticky this, so let's get in everything usefull we can find. Hi all, Check out this great page, for a how to, on sword polishing... www.ksky.ne.jp/~sumie99/togi,process.html
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Post by Deleted on Sept 15, 2009 6:48:13 GMT
Hi! I was gonna PM this question to Tom, but then I thought that others may have a similar question so I figured I'd put it out here for everyone. Tom, on your belt sander, when do you know to change the belt? I mean how do you know when it's worn out?
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Post by Tom K. (ianflaer) on Sept 15, 2009 7:58:08 GMT
it's like sandpaper, you can feel that it isn't as gritty, you can see a change in color, and of course it doesn't work as well. I pretty much use a belt on one sword only, especially the finer grit like the 9 micron (1200 grit) some of the heavier belts can be used a few times but I only do that on my swords. if I'm sharpening some one else's sword each new blade gets a new belt. I also count each edge as a new blade so a double edged sword usually gets two belts of each grit, sometimes more depending on how much work it needs. you just have to feel it out.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 15, 2009 9:06:40 GMT
And what about the leather strap? Surely you don't use one of those on each sword.
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Post by Tom K. (ianflaer) on Sept 17, 2009 5:47:13 GMT
only in special cases, if the customer requests it and, of course, pays for it. those belts ain't cheap. but yeah they get all loose and floppy and stretched out.
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Post by Deleted on Nov 4, 2009 7:13:47 GMT
I've been practicing sharpening lately, and I've discovered a couple of things. First, the accusharp, the lansky equivalent and the samurai shark are no good.
The accusharp creates an UNEVEN edge, removing more material from one side than from the other. The edge is sharp, but uneven. The lansky one has the same problem.
As for the samurai shark, I almost tossed it in the garbage can. It has an adjustable angle system that looks really neat, but it actually weakens the bevel. Basically, I used it to touch up a parkerized knife, thinking it would be the safest bet not to scratch the finish, and the bevel completely opened and scratched the finish...
I've been trying by hand with blocks and sand paper of different grit, and I found I had a palm sander among my tools...hehe. It makes the shaping of the blade much easier, and it doesn't overheat it (and it's cheap). I used it on my Spartan Lakonia, giving it a nice appleseed edge. However, there's probably something bad about the motion of the thing, as I just can't seem to get the edge to be paper cutting sharp (although it does catch in my nail). Should I finish with something other than sandpaper? (I finished it with 2000 grit sandpaper).
Federico
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Post by Tom K. (ianflaer) on Nov 7, 2009 23:14:29 GMT
the main problem with a sander like that is it moves in several directions rapidly. in order to get a really sharp edge you need to move your paper from the center of the blade towards the edge of the blade that directio of motion will sharpen your edge up nicely but if you go oposite you will dull it a little. check out the sharpening videos I did (either earlier in this thread or you can use the link in my signature.)
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Post by Deleted on Dec 7, 2009 17:31:39 GMT
Thank you Tom for your great videos. I have learned much, and I began to find my own way to sharpen based on your techniques and advice.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 1, 2010 20:56:38 GMT
I like your technique and have used it on my sword. The more I do it the more intuitive it gets. I especially like the diamond sharpeners. Metal glo is the bomb! Regarding the criticism of the accusharp or the smith's sharpener, one should not sharpen with these devices. They are used to true the edge. The sharpening is done with the diamond files.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 2, 2010 11:04:12 GMT
I've been practicing sharpening lately, and I've discovered a couple of things. First, the accusharp, the lansky equivalent and the samurai shark are no good. The accusharp creates an UNEVEN edge, removing more material from one side than from the other. The edge is sharp, but uneven. The lansky one has the same problem. As for the samurai shark, I almost tossed it in the garbage can. It has an adjustable angle system that looks really neat, but it actually weakens the bevel. Basically, I used it to touch up a parkerized knife, thinking it would be the safest bet not to scratch the finish, and the bevel completely opened and scratched the finish... I've been trying by hand with blocks and sand paper of different grit, and I found I had a palm sander among my tools...hehe. It makes the shaping of the blade much easier, and it doesn't overheat it (and it's cheap). I used it on my Spartan Lakonia, giving it a nice appleseed edge. However, there's probably something bad about the motion of the thing, as I just can't seem to get the edge to be paper cutting sharp (although it does catch in my nail). Should I finish with something other than sandpaper? (I finished it with 2000 grit sandpaper). Federico I wish to ask about the accusharp. I have used it and similar devices many times. Recently I started using them as shown in brian's technique. I have not seen the uneven edge of which you speak. I don't see how that could happen as the carbide blocks are rigidly fixed. Are you sure your blade did not move while using the accusharp? I'm just asking out of cusriousity.
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Post by William Swiger on May 22, 2010 11:54:24 GMT
I use an Indiga Oelstein fine sharpening stone. Learned to sharpen tools as a kid using these types of stones (size of a big candy bar). If you are careful, you can put a scary sharp edge on katana without harming the blade.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 14, 2010 21:18:00 GMT
Hey Tom!
One thing I want to bring up real quickly. You mentioned about not leaving the blade stationary for very long so as not to create a deeper spot in the blade. I wanted to point out that that goes for cleaning up nicks in the blade edge as well. Technically...you want to bring the ENTIRE edge down to the level of the nick, thus...avoiding creating waves in the blade. If you think about the contact patch on your belt sander's slack belt...then think about running it back and forth over 4" or 5" of the blade to wipe out a nick...you'll see what I mean.
Cris
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