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Post by Turok on Mar 16, 2014 8:08:34 GMT
Is it just me or is the prices on all Chinese weapons going up! It's not just Hanwei, but also Cold Steel, Dynasty Forge, and even Kris Cutlery! When I started focusing more on Chinese swords, I can't recall Cold Steel asking $540 for their Dadao or their battle gim for $700. At Kultofathena the dealer prices are raising! The CS butterfly swords is as much as the gim now.
Most of Kris Cutlery's offerings are plain looking and the quality is questionable according to many reviews here. I just don't understand how the price of Chinese swords is going up especially when the quality and aesthetics is not getting any better.
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Post by junon on Mar 16, 2014 13:11:10 GMT
Yeah... I agree with you... Since Hanwei (CAS Iberia) discontinue most of the chinese line, it has been quite different all around... Even though Hanwei doesn't really make a really historical pieces, but being the 800 lbs gorilla does make the price competitive for customer... Who dare to sell swords higher than Hanwei unless you really have different market/quality level? Now with hanwei gone from chinese sword scene, that barrier has been lifted and we would see slowly increase everywhere... Heck... finding the Hanwei cutting jian is pretty hard these days! Seven stars trading seems to just receive some incoming after being out-of-stock for so long... On thing I notice is huanuo sword carried by 7 stars still have same price like last year? Might be a good time to order some of those pretty huanuo from them!  I personally would be interested in apple seed geometry jian with nicer fitting (such as jue yun jian with apple seed); Other than that, I'm not sure I want to get anything chinese in the near future... Not many choices available these days... |
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Post by Turok on Mar 16, 2014 22:35:37 GMT
Glad to know I'm not the only one seeing this. When Hanwei released the Rodell Cutting Jian, I expected seeing a lot more fine production jians and daos from other companies. Maybe the CMA market would expand like the Katana and Euro sword industry. Compare this jian that costed only $220 when it was released...  ...to this ugly $475 "magical jian" and all the other crap that's in the market right now :lol:  BTW this "jian" is the only functional Kris Cutlery has unless you want a wushu SLO. And then there's also this jian from Traditional Filipino Weapons that is horrendously nontraditional :roll: kultofathena.com/product.asp?item=TFW019&name=Chinese+Jian+Now with CAS Iberia out of the picture, I thought at the beginning of the year maybe Cold Steel, Kris Cutlery or any other company would expand the CMA market. Instead, it looks like the reverse happened and the market shrunk! Huanou is good but its still a lot of $$$ for a production sword... |
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Sean (Shadowhowler)
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Post by Sean (Shadowhowler) on Mar 17, 2014 0:15:57 GMT
If I may ask... what reviews suggest Kris Cutlery to be lacking quality? I have owned several Kris Cutlery Katana... and I find them to be the best available under 300 bucks. I've had one of their Jian and Dao swords... both of which impressed me... and I still have one of their DaDao which I'll be reviewing here in the near future. I've always found Kris Cutlery weapons to be a great value and high quality.
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Post by Turok on Mar 17, 2014 1:21:28 GMT
Yes their katana and filipino weapons are excellent but many of their CMA weapons that have been reviewed aren't really historical or traditional. I'm sorry if I wasn't clear about the topic but the focus is on production Chinese swords for cutting and martial arts. Most of KC's current CMA lineup is for wushu demonstrations and uses stainless. Here's some reviews of their functional jians forum.grtc.org/viewtopic.php?f=8&t=417 viewtopic.php?f=6&t=13267Granted the review is old but KC kept the same model for years and hasn't really improved it much! Also the dadao is a fairly recent and simple weapon and doesn't reflect the artistry of classical weapons such as the liuyedao or yanmaodao. It's like saying the Type 95 stamped gunto reflects hundreds of years of fine Japanese craftsmanship ...(I'm just kidding but I hope you know what I mean) I don't mean to be disrespectful towards anyone's sword or company because it's not just KC. However it's a pretty sad state the CMA weapon community is in because of the current market. Many have to accept cheap and ahistorical substitutes or use expensive, flamboyant pieces and nothing is really changing. |
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Post by junon on Mar 17, 2014 4:03:06 GMT
Yeah... trying to get decent, historically accurate chinese sword is hard... Even hanwei jian is questionable  *except the cutting jian... because designed by Shifu Scott. M. Rodell himself* The dao is little bit better; the beile dao (yanmaodao) and song saber (liuyedao) is pretty good. other than this, need to go to huanuo (or dynasty forge / cold steel - a huanuo rebrand). But even huanuo jian is diamond cross section One of the good one is A&A jian - apple seed geometry... but looks quite plain [but based on original!] with no scabbard Shenlong from John Lundemo is good as well, I recall |
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Sean (Shadowhowler)
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Post by Sean (Shadowhowler) on Mar 17, 2014 17:21:38 GMT
I've been interested in the A&A Jian... tho plain it looks like a good option for a user cutting sword. I had the Shenlong Jian from Odinblades... it was VERY well made but I had a hard time cutting well with it.
Turok: I can't speak to historical accuracy of the Kris Cutlery Chinese swords... not my area of interest... but you said the QUALITY is questionable... and I would disagree with that. As I said, I owned a Jian and Dao from KC and still have their DaDao... and all of them are well made, durable, and of very good quality for the price... which was less then 250 for each sword. Now... their present offerings do look to be mostly stainless steel display type swords... but the functional Chinese swords they have sold in the past were very suitable for use and cutting... they were of excellent quality. I've no idea how historically accurate they were or were not... but as weapons of function, they were solid.
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Post by Turok on Mar 18, 2014 8:04:31 GMT
okay I understand your point Shadowhowler. I don't mean to bash Kris Cutlery with this thread, but if you read the past reviews of their Chinese swords that I provided you'd understand where I'm coming from. I am sure all of KC's old offerings can be used as weapons, but not as a quality tool for traditional Chinese swordsmanship. I don't mean to insult the company or your swords but I assumed that this section of the forum specializes in Chinese martial art weapons. According to other people’s experiences their Chinese swords are awkwardly balanced or poorly put together. Now granted, maybe they all got lemons but then it only shows that quality isn’t consistent. Maybe there were some models that were true gems but now they're gone and their current lineup are mostly showpieces. If you want the old models, the prices for them probably skyrocketed too... Now going back to the A&A Jian, I like the appleseed geometry but I’m not a fan of the ricasso! I know some late Qing and Republican period jian had them but to me it just looks funny. It looks like it should be on a rapier, not a jian! I guess I’m just a Qing purist! (it’s a pun :lol: ) Also the missing scabbard is a deal breaker for me. How else can modern day martial artist safely carry, store, and protect a precious jian? |
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Post by junon on Mar 18, 2014 8:37:14 GMT
hahahaha yes... I hate that ricasso as well... but A&A can actually custom made it, so they can remove it (or even lengthen it to be more historically accurate!).. I know most of us probably read the review here - but I would put the link here for completeness: forum.grtc.org/viewtopic.php?f=8 ... 5060#p5060 Scabbard? Who need scabbard? hahahaha Ordering scabbard is not that hard; getting the fitting would be problematic though; unlike japanese sword, you can't get a decent set of fitting (tsuba, fuchi, koshira) for chinese easily... at least not outside China... Also I haven't heard a lot of polisher/mounter for Chinese sword... Peter Dekker in Netherland and Philip Tom comes to my mind... but other than those two, I don't recall anyone else who can get you proper scabbard (thin, rayskin wrapped scabbard with matching fittings). |
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Post by Arwyn on Mar 18, 2014 14:42:29 GMT
Just to add to this, if you can find them Jin Shi makes excellent Chinese blades. I have one of their Han Jian, and it is superb. Unfortunately, they only do small lots, so getting a hold of their blades can be spotty at best. They seem to bring in lots irregularly over the year, and there is a waiting list.
Huawei also makes some Chinese blades, mostly Han Jian, but it seems to be pretty decent quality.
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Post by Dr. Whom on Mar 19, 2014 13:45:35 GMT
I love the Hanwei Cutting Jian...It also has an appleseed geometry and hard to beat at that price point from SST.
If only huanuo could make one of their nice looking jians with appleseed geometry...
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Post by Daishikaze on Mar 19, 2014 16:49:02 GMT
As I understand it, Huanuo used to put an Appleseed edge geometry to their blades, but the collector's market demanded razor sharp flat diamond geometry so thats what they give us now. The evidence is in Lancelot Chan's review of the Huanuo Carp Jian that he wrote several years ago on his website. The one he wrote about had the proper geometry, he amended the review with a note stating that since a certain point, they only do flat diamond geometry now.
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*except the cutting jian... because designed by Shifu Scott. M. Rodell himself*
