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Post by THE_SUPERWEIRDO on Jul 22, 2013 3:53:12 GMT
I've been think about buying a Renaissance style sword to be part of my collection for a while, to try and diversify my collection as much as possible. :mrgreen: (And not just rows and rows of katanas ...) The look of a rapier-style sword is just eye catching for a guy who's used to only seeing Medievals and Japanese swords. My only problem is that I have a feeling most rapiers aren't a cutting weapon... (Or that I'm clearly ill-informed of what a quality rapier can actually do.) So I stumbled upon "Cut-and-thrust" swords, which according in my understanding is a combination of the nimbleness of a rapier with the cutting power found on other swords. After searching around the net, I found reviews of the Hanwei Side Sword. I read that it was a nice cutter and was good for the price. My only worries is the availability, finding out that it's only available straight from the CAS Hanwei site and I believe production of the sword is low/stopped. Is it true that this sword is now exclusive for the Hanwei site only? And if so, are the stocks of the sword limited? And this is troublesome because I plan on buying this for myself around or possibly near Christmas season and save up till then :lol: (Most likely around October or so... ) Other than the Hanwei's Side Sword, I found the Munich Cut and Thrust Sword from Windlass. The only obvious problem I saw from this sword is that I think it's a bit heavy for the kind of sword it is, making it not handle like a rapier. This sword is just my last resort when the Hanwei Side sword is possibly out of stock. Other than those swords, are there other good sub $300 "Cut and Thrust" swords out there? I obviously have no clue about historically accurate Renaissance swords. :? Thanks in advance! |
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Post by Onimusha on Jul 22, 2013 4:28:29 GMT
The rapier is the subject of much debate. There were swords that were referred to as rapiers that had wider blades that could cut decently. The term "rapier" is a somewhat modern invention. The manuals just refer to them as swords usually. The modern rapier reproductions are thrusters. They can cut, but not very well. Side swords are heavier than a rapier in general. That one you linked has a POB very close to the hilt. That should help with control. Hanwei made a lot of models exclusive to their site. It has nothing to do with their production status. The hanwei is probably your best option in that range. Windlass has a whippiness issue sometimes.
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Post by Grubnessul on Jul 22, 2013 7:29:23 GMT
Contrary to popular believe, rapiers are cutting weapons as well. Even as late writers as Bruchius write on cutting with rapiers. A spada del lato (sidesword) would indeed be a sword more designed for cutting and trusting. I'm not really found of hanwei rapiers myself, I find their balance a bit awkward and the mass distribution of the blade makes it feel much shorter. I'd recommend a Darkwood or Arma Bohemia rapier.  |
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Post by Warlokk on Jul 22, 2013 13:59:59 GMT
I have the Munich, and it's a good sword... it's a bit heavy but most of the weight is in the basket hilt, so the blade is actually pretty nimble. Since it's a stouter blade than a rapier it's not that whippy either. However, it is a screw-pommel assembly and mine came a little loose after my first cutting session. My Noob Review can be read here: viewtopic.php?f=6&t=9626 |
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Post by William Swiger on Jul 22, 2013 15:46:21 GMT
That sword has been on my list for a few years.
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Post by TheNewDavout on Jul 22, 2013 17:11:19 GMT
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Post by THE_SUPERWEIRDO on Jul 22, 2013 19:20:53 GMT
Thanks for the response and the info, guys! Are you guys talking about the Darkwood Armory's economy rapier? I would agree, that rapier looks really nice, but for the things I'm looking for in a rapier (Wire wrapped grip and a guard style similar to the Hanwei Side Sword or from the Munich {Don't know what the styles are called}), adding those options will put the sword way over my price limit. For that price, to me it's a high end sword :mrgreen: It's also interesting to hear that the Munich is more balanced than the Hanwei Side Sword, despite being 14.5 ounces heavier. I'm also not sure about the steel of the Side Sword... (Saw a cutting vid of a guy hitting his stand and the blade chipped a little) It seems to me that the Hanwei Side sword isn't a popular choice for some people. :? Has the quality of the sword dropped or are there just simply better options? Or is it he quality control directly from Hanwei? |
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Post by Onimusha on Jul 22, 2013 19:30:00 GMT
I heard somewhere that the hanwei grip was hollow plastic.
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Post by THE_SUPERWEIRDO on Jul 22, 2013 19:54:11 GMT
Woah, wha... :shock:
That's interesting to hear, would that actually affect the durability of the sword?
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Post by Onimusha on Jul 22, 2013 20:03:14 GMT
It doesn't seem too, but it will affect the balance.
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Post by TheNewDavout on Jul 22, 2013 21:06:02 GMT
I've handled both the hanwei sidesword and the munich, the munich is much truer to the type in terms of handling, and much sturdier. I was thinking of any of the Darkwood options, I have an economy hilt and a simple side ring from them. Check the classifieds on www.myarmoury.com/ or SFI, and here for that matter, occasionally you'll see used darkwoods for good prices, though they usually go fast. |
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Post by Grubnessul on Jul 22, 2013 21:43:18 GMT
That's not high end, Cervenka's stuff would be high end  But the Darkwood economy's are good swords in my (fencing) experience. I use a Arma Bohemia sword myself (see for that my topic somewhere here on the first page). |
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Post by Svadilfari on Jul 22, 2013 21:56:46 GMT
I have a Hanwei Side sword. It's nice and responsive, blades not whippy. It does have a wire wrapped hilt, but the core is plastic. So far, not had any problems with that..but I have been tempted to try and inject some sort of filler into it to fill the voids. Not got around to that. The pommel is screw on, and needs watching. My main concern with this weapon is the guards. It looks OK .. but it's made of some relatively 'soft' cast metal . Bang it hard enough against a solid object, and I'd be concerned it'd distort, or maybe even break. Apart from those quibbles, I'm happy with my purchase..it pokes holes very nicely through water bottles and can cut as well  For it's price - I'm happy with it. Not had the chance to compare it with similar weapons, but obviously, the more you spend, the more you're likely to get |
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Post by Dave Kelly on Jul 23, 2013 1:06:18 GMT
 These are my pre-rapiers: The Windlass Henry VIII is still available. Sharpened and you've got a very healthy CnT. The 30 years war sword is a saxon type with long historical legs. The handling on this one is exceptional. The chincy scabbard and a poor finished grip spoiled a really good weapon. ( I sent mine to Sonny Suttles and he turned it into a weapon fit for an Earl. ) The Saxon bacvksword is out of production. The Munich you've heard about. The 15th Century is actually a late medieval type XX. The two sided Brass Saxon is a pretty sturdy weapon. ( Out of production ) The Windlass/Cold STeel Broadsword is out of production. Don't be afraid to check ebay. There is an old DelTin there right now for $200.00. (Need to hit the print out key in the upper right to see the whole pic.) |
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Post by THE_SUPERWEIRDO on Jul 23, 2013 5:50:45 GMT
It really seems like the real sword I should get is the Windlass Munich :mrgreen: (It's rather strange how my only reason I'm reluctant on the Munich is the scabbard... And maybe the weight of it) The Hanwei Side Sword just sounds like a sword with problems, like the plastic handle core :? Although, I see some hidden potential from the sword despite having a plastic core Though, now I see the two swords as a tie... I remain undecided between the two  (Slightly leaning towards the Munich though) Oh how I wish I have more money to afford something like the Darkwood :lol: Thanks for all the response and more info! |
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Post by Kilted Cossack on Jul 25, 2013 14:12:33 GMT
Well, here I am, a day late and tuppence short (as usual). I've got the Hanwei Renaissance Side Sword, and I'm of mixed opinion about it. On the one hand, it's an elegant looking little devil, no doubt about it. The blade is well tempered and pretty well executed for a light cut and thrust blade.
I think my main objection is the extreme rearward bias of the blade. That pommel is a solid, solid chunk of metal, and the blade isn't, to my mind, quite heavy enough to justify it. It is roughly the same size as some other, later era, blades that I have repros of (US 1850 Staff and Officer's saber), and I find that I prefer them in the hand. Hanwei lists it as two pounds eight, compared to the 1850's two pounds two, and when I go from one to the other I find the 1850 is vastly more responsive as a cutting instrument, while giving up very little to the Hanwei as a thruster.
My temporary solution was to do some grinding on a 2d generation VA AT303S and fitting the guard from the Side Sword to that blade, while retaining the pommel of the Arming Sword. Sometimes I swap everything back into place, and that's how the Side Sword is set up now, but I'm pretty sure I'll switch the VA blade back in.
Also, as I think was mentioned earlier, the guard's elegance is a bit fragile; you could bend that thing out of shape if you set your mind to it.
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Post by Grubnessul on Jul 26, 2013 14:21:22 GMT
You could also take a look at other types of Renaissance weapons, such as the prettiest sword EVAH, the Schiavona or grab one of the cheap Scottish baskethilts Kult of Athena has in its pre-used department. |
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Post by THE_SUPERWEIRDO on Jul 26, 2013 21:54:33 GMT
So the problem is the blade being too light? I thought that's what a cut-and-thrust blade should be...
Anyway, it's interesting to hear opinions on the Hanwei Side sword with some positive bias. And as long as the blade is not fragile, I guess the guard would be alright for me.
And the Schiavona really look amazing. :shock: I wonder if they're basically a cut-and-thrust blade with a more ornate guard... :?: Cause they look like fancy broad swords.
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Post by Shrugger on Jul 26, 2013 22:10:56 GMT
Speaking of Schiavonas, is there any consensus on which manufacturer makes the best affordable ones?
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Post by Kilted Cossack on Jul 26, 2013 22:26:57 GMT
I'm not sure if I'd say the blade's too light so much as "with the sword set up as it is, the blade's too light for my taste." The pommel is really pretty dang heavy, and it shifts the point of balance way to the rear---maybe an inch from the top of the guard.
I just compared the stats and the feel of the Side Sword and the 1850 I mentioned above. They're really about the same size, with the Side Sword being about six ounces heavier. That extra weight is all in the pommel; in other words, right at the end where it will most affect the balance.
Handling them one after the other, the difference in feel was decided. With its more forward (5 1/2") point of balance, the 1850 sabre felt heavier, believe it or not, and definitely more oriented towards the cut. The 1850 feels like it could be worked edge or point with roughly equal facility. In contrast, the Side Sword is decidedly oriented towards the thrust; it's what feels natural. At least for me, when I pick up the Side Sword, I'm not thinking about cutting.
Part of the problem is that I like the Side Sword's blade. It's got good distal taper, well shaped, well tempered. (The polish could be nicer, but hey.) It should cut fairly well . . . if its set up for a cutting sword.
Does this make any sense at all?
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(Slightly leaning towards the Munich though) Oh how I wish I have more money to afford something like the Darkwood :lol: 
