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Post by Wichita Ronin on May 30, 2013 4:12:49 GMT
Just wanted to see how more experienced practitioner's and collector's feel about T-10 steel katana's i just ordered one and i hope i made the right decision i would love to hear your opinion's on T-10 steel thank you.
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Post by deejay on May 30, 2013 14:31:39 GMT
At this time I have 2 T10 kats,I like em-cut with them both alot.What exactly is your concern or are you going through buyers remorse.
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Post by Wichita Ronin on May 30, 2013 16:57:51 GMT
Thanks for replying Deejay no i dont have buyers remorse yet any way if it gets here and it and is messesd up i will lol my friend says i should have went with a 1095 or 1060 but he does not know much so i just wanted to hear some feedback from people who own them and not from someone who just says they are not vary good but does not own any katana or any other swords for that mattter i was stuck between two kats one 1060 and the T-10 and i went with the T-10 just hope i made the right choice
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Post by etiennehamel on May 30, 2013 17:20:30 GMT
these are took from thesamuraiworkshop website in the FAQ section:
T10 steel is also known as tool steel. It is the most common steel available on the market and thus, less expensive. Don't mistake this for less in quality. T10 tool steel has the most similarities with tamahagane than any other steel available on the market.
The base of the T10 steel is carbon and iron. The carbon contents is between 1.0 and 1.1% with some small performance enhancing additions. However, this is less than 1095 steel so you can say the steel is a bit purer.
Polishing T10 steel in kesho hadori requires really specific stones due to the hard surface. However, since 2012, Kaneie Sword Art has the capability to also perform a kesho hadori polish on T10 steel blades. The positive side to traditionally polishing T10 steel is that nugui reacts much better due to the simplicity of the alloy.
1095 steel and T10 are so similar that it is nearly impossible to identify them without metallurgic research equipment.
and for 1095:
This type of steel is a very common high-carbon steel. It can be water hardened into an beautiful white /blueish steel with excellent edge retention qualities. Differential hardening will cause a clear hamon which can be polished into a white kesho hadori hamon.
Besides the usual carbon and iron, AISI 1095 steel also contains small percentages of manganese, chromium and silicon for rust resistance and better flexibility.
Researched traditional (kawagane) tamahagane steel contained between 0.8 and 1.1% of carbon. AISI 1095 steel contains (as the name states) 0.95% of carbon. The 1095 steel is a perfect average on this.
hope this helps
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Post by John Kenshin on May 30, 2013 17:21:30 GMT
I own a T-10 Katana and though I haven't cut anything with it yet, It is a very beautiful blade. Here is a short video of the sword I purchased in action. ... fkxi-psmPA
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Post by Wichita Ronin on May 30, 2013 17:36:03 GMT
Thanks Etiennehamel it does help when i get some more cash i will be getting a 1095 the ones i seen are out of my price range for now and thanks John Kenshin nice sword hope i will be as happy with mine as you are with yours.
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Post by Valandur on May 30, 2013 18:15:55 GMT
I would certainly go with a T10 over a 1060 blade, every time. Although I don't own a T10, just from what I've read.
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TomK
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Senior Forumite
Posts: 2,377
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Post by TomK on May 30, 2013 18:33:48 GMT
"T10 tool steel has the most similarities with tamahagane than any other steel available on the market" this statement is utter marketing trash BS. as for "The base of the T10 steel is carbon and iron." here let me fix this statement: "The base of steel is carbon and iron." Tamahagane was sorted by the smith by carbon content. some of it was so low carbon as to be unhardenable some was quite high in carbon and its mixture was pretty random to the point that it cannot be classified as close to any modern steel. modern steels are deeper hardening than tamahagane which was a shallow hardening steel.
finally no one (to my knowledge) has yet to produce any definitive chemical formula for T10 steel. it is used in China as a 1095 replacement and China is not known for having exacting standards for these things so there could theoretically be a large amount of variation in it from one batch to another.
so does this mean it is a bad sword steel? no. I own a T10 steel sword that I am quite happy with. Howard Clark makes amazing swords out of plain old 1080 but almost everyone will tell you that 5160 or 9260 are better sword steels. would you take a Cheness or Kriscutlery katana over a Howard Clark if they were the same price? I hope not. my point is that the steel is not the most important factor here. the people are the important part. you should pick your maker based on their reputation and their past work, and let them pick the steel. a T10 sword from say SwordNArmory should be a pretty good sword but there are other makers using T10 (because it had a flare of popularity) that I wouldn't touch with a ten foot pole.
TL:DR: don't buy into steel marketing hype it is the maker that makes the differece.
hope this helps
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Post by deejay on May 30, 2013 18:57:05 GMT
I just wanted to add that both the T10s I own were SBG models-whom I trust to do right by me.Meaning Paul the owner.
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Post by LastGodslayer on May 30, 2013 18:59:36 GMT
As far as I know, there ARE some similarities between Chinese T10 and tamahagane, because of the silicon content and "average" carbon content (I say average because like Tom just said, tamahagane's carbon content is/was decided by the smith, and like in all steels changes with forging). If anything, the starting point for carbon in tamahagane is higher than T10's. T10 is a relatively low alloy steel, around 1% carbon, while 1095 is a low alloy steel with around 0.95% (therefore 10 95). T10 is closer to W1 than to 1095, but I've read reports of T10 having no Tungsten, which would make it more or less an impure 1095. Again, just like Tom said, since the production of T10 occurs in China we don't really know if the different alloying percentages are intended or random, although the idea is that its their version of 1095. If I remember correctly, tamahagane's high carbon plates are usually around 1.2% carbon but these are mixed with plates with 0.7% and even lower. Blades end up on average with 0.6% to 0.8%, (I swear that when I find the paper I'll quote it correctly), since carbon loss inevitably occurs. I think that if you were to evaluate the carbon level on a finished T10 katana you'd find its around 0.8% too. Tom, I think that tamahagane hardening depth is similar to that of moder steels of identical composition. If anything, might just be slightly shallower due to the more porous nature of the source material and the presence of more inclusions that might buffer the heat propagation during quench. As for it being good for a sword: 1- It depends on the heat treatment; 2- It depends on the forging (especially once you try anything fancy like folding it); 3- It depends on what exactly was the "T10" that your sword is made of; 4- Yes! As good as 1095/W1 or any similar low alloy steel; 5- Like Tom said, don't buy into the hype! You could get a really good blade out of plain 1060 if whoever made it knew what they were doing. Where I've heard that T10 resembles tamahagane is in the way the steel behaves during HT (hamon, resilience, edge holding) and the color/feel of the steel. I personally have not seen a side by side of this, and to be honest the only reason why I think this may be true is that the slow roasted iron bearing sand (tamahagane) had significant amounts of silicon left in it just like T10, but very little contaminants. Chill man. I got an odachi made out of it, and its a bit scarred, some rolling of the edge, but for what it is, I trust it as a weapon.
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Post by Kentōshi on May 30, 2013 20:40:44 GMT
I don't own a T10 (yet) but I did pick up a couple 1060s (DF Musha and DSA Medieval Knight) through SBG and these are some really tough blades. As previously discussed, it's the caliber and consistency of the smith/forge that makes the most difference, and with Paul you know he's done his research. Chinese, Japanese, American, Canadian, whatever... I'd trust any grade of steel he offers.
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Post by stickem on May 30, 2013 20:55:17 GMT
zknives.com/knives/articles/knifesteelfaq.shtmlThe site above has more info on steel types than you want to know. You can use their steel chart to find the chemical composition of T10. I have linked it in other threads before so will not take the time to do so again now. I agree with what has been said about Chinese production of T10 not necessarily meeting these specs. It is so mass produced that anything could be called T10 due to lack of regulation. I also echo the thought that it is best to go through a reputable maker. We all know Clark knows how to temper L6. Hanwei might know. The average eBay vendor? No way. IMO, T10 is like this in that you can trust a reputable vendor. If Bugeie or Kaneie or Huanuo says it is T10, then it is very likely to be the good stuff with tungten. If it is eBay vendor SwordKatana666, then who the hell knows. Could be made in the same factory they are making kids' toys with lead :roll: Steel types have different properties. Otherwise they wouldn't bother to make so many different types if their properties were 'all the same'. Bottom line, the smith makes all the difference. That said, not even Howard Clark is going to get a wild brilliant striking choji hamon on L6. He can do this on 1086 however... summerchild.com/hc_creasman.htm
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Post by Wichita Ronin on May 30, 2013 21:56:17 GMT
you guys got me a little worried about getting this Huawei then since its off of ebay and made in china
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Post by LastGodslayer on May 30, 2013 22:06:45 GMT
Don't worry too much. There are always lemons once in a while and Huawei had at least one that chipped, but that was about one in over 20 reviews, and they made good on it.
odds are you'll complain about the way the etched the blade, than over the steel of it.
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Post by Wichita Ronin on May 30, 2013 22:14:03 GMT
thanks that is good to know i heard good and bad things about them thought i would just take a chance since its my first non rat tail i just have not heard much on T-10 but i fell in love with the sword so i went for it
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TomK
Member
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Posts: 2,377
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Post by TomK on May 30, 2013 22:28:40 GMT
There are lots of reputable dealers on eBay, just do a little research and stick with the ones we know and you should be fine. Huawei is pretty well known to us and as far as I can tell is a good dealer.
Without having any reliable information on what exactly is in T10 anyone who claims it is similar to this or that is just spewing hype.
Tamahagane, as far as I understand it was full of impurities that had to be worked out and had almost no consistency from one batch to another. From what I have been able to uncover about the truth of what is in T10 (precious little it has been), it appears to me to be a thoroughly modern steel and bears little resemblance to tamahagane other than being composed of iron, carbon, and other alloying metals.
In the end companies that use T10 will tell you how very wonderful it is while those that don't use it will tell you how aweful it is.
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Post by LastGodslayer on May 30, 2013 23:07:37 GMT
I think that any modern steel is dissimilar to tamahagane because aside from the chemical composition, tamahagane is not homogeneous like modern steels, and blades made from tamahagane tend to have a lot inclusions not only because of the making of tamahagane, but from all the rice ash, clay watter and whatnot during forging. In many ways a tamahagane blade is completely unlike a modern blade. Chemically, T10 tends to be similar to the "steel" of tamahagane, but only in some of the configurations I have read about. Circa 1% carbon, 0,5% silicon, but as you said tamahagane itself has to be evaluated case by case as the ore, process and a ton of other factors, some even related to the tatara itself contributed to the tamahagane's composition.
I think the Chinese forges push T10 because its accessible. In the US we see a whole lot of 5160 in swords. In europe I see more W1 and cro-moly variants of the plain carbon steels. Everyone has a favorite race horse. As long as they treat them right, all of them can be winners.
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Post by stickem on May 31, 2013 0:10:42 GMT
[/i] Agreed. My 5160 swords are tough enough for anything. There are certain tool steels like L6 and CPM3V that are by their nature like this as well, meaning you can throw most anything you want at 'em if they are tempered properly. Thing is these spring steels and tool steels in general do not lend themselves to a fancy hamon, so you trade some aesthetics for practicality. IMO, tamahagane and 1095 lend themselves to aesthetics with a nicer hamon, and in some cases a nicer hada as well. SPS also has a nice hada and hamon, though more subtle than say, tamahagane or folded 1095 present. Again, these things are by their nature subjective and depend on the polish to reveal the activity, but here we are specifically talking about art appreciation
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Post by Valandur on May 31, 2013 1:06:40 GMT
I was thinking the same. There have to be grades of swords available to these vendors. Someone who's selling on Ebay is more likely to use the "lips and semprinis" people (sorry, a restaurant term meaning cheapest guys around) then a factory that turns out better blades for a higher price. These guys aren't likely to inspect the blades nearly as well as reputable vendors. OMG the Howard Clark sword is gorgeous! I knew a guy in Cocoa Beach FL. That had a 1966 GTO that was almost exactly the same color as the Saya in the pictures! Man that was a sweet car. Convertible, 389 tri power, 4 speed... Ok, I'm done derailing the thread
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Post by stickem on May 31, 2013 1:38:52 GMT
Achtung! grammar nazi says plural and possessive are not the same thing. No sword for you! :lol: In repitition for the sake of redundancy, for your edification and entertainment, here is a thread which will address your questions about T10 and steel types, as we had this same conversation moments ago: /post/496146/threadDéjà vu and the squirrel running on the same wheel continuously and all that :lol:
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