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Post by kingrikoraru on May 8, 2013 0:48:41 GMT
I'm not sure what he's getting at on that point but based on his post, he's saying the company does not exist from a legal point of view
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Post by Judosailor on May 8, 2013 1:01:48 GMT
I better let him explain before I jump to any conclusions, but on the surface that seems a weird thing to be making an issue of. Especially since he hasn't shown that they are in any way breaking the law or even doing anything shady.
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Post by Onimusha on May 8, 2013 1:22:45 GMT
The way I see it is, the product looks good so far, both bugei and KOA sells them, the purchase went smoothly, and you say that they're worth the money. There's no reason for you to worry about whether or not they turn up on a business search. Sure, they employed some very obvious shilling tactics. While I don't condone it, I can understand why they would do it. It's hard enough to keep a business afloat in this economy. It's especially hard when you're in a niche market filled with well-established and respected competition.
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Post by Timberwolf on May 8, 2013 8:10:54 GMT
Aw, heck, guys. Judosailor got a nice sword at a cheap price, so it sounds like everything is cool. I saw that $6700 sword on their site long ago, and that made me laugh, but I ain't buyin' one, so I really don't care. :roll:
Good review, man. - TW
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Post by Judosailor on May 8, 2013 11:25:06 GMT
By the way, that 6K sword is one of Davd Goldberg's Goldmountain swords that he makes for Skyjiro which is why I didn't consider it a Skyjiro sword. You can find it here. www.skyjiroforge.com/ume-blossom-p-24.html It is definitely not acid etched.
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Post by uchiha998 on May 8, 2013 13:56:42 GMT
I don't know exactly but it does kind of look like that hamon ends at the kissaki rather than continue on with a proper boshi. I do have to say the pictures don't give me a good view of it. The one picture of the kissaki has the light reflecting off of it to a point that no detail can be seen. The hamon does look a little off to me. Its a little too uniform. I'm not saying its fake but the fact that I'm not sure is enough for me to be certain this sword is incredibly overpriced. I don't see anything that makes this sword even competitive with any of the $1000 production katana out there. I really want to see more pics of this blade so I can see that kissaki a little better. Its possible that I can't see the hamon on the kissaki due to the light reflecting off of it.
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Post by Judosailor on May 8, 2013 15:06:02 GMT
Just to be clear, you are talking about the Gold Mountain sword and not the one I reviewed.
TBH, I know little about swords in that price range and what they should have or look like. However, the ad copy says that it is made with actual Tamehagane, and has a 300 year old antique tsuba. So, I assume some of that accounts for the price.
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Post by aussie-rabbit on May 8, 2013 15:26:41 GMT
Absolutely ! always good to see another review
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Post by Vue on May 8, 2013 15:31:50 GMT
That particular blade is at best in similar quality to some Huanno and Dynasty forge pieces, however neither Huanno or Dynasty Forge is asking $6.7K :lol:
Like I said on a different thread, there was quite a commotion a few years back on SFI about whether these blades was really made by Mr.Goldberg himself or were they simply been customized by him. I'm not sure the question was answered but the majority seems to find that these blades just looks too much like the many Fred Chen 'Huanno' pieces or from one his off shoot forges a little too suspect. Search for Gold Mountain threads on SFI and judge for yourselves, a little research goes a long way in this hobby.
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Post by aussie-rabbit on May 8, 2013 15:33:02 GMT
Absolutely ! Tsuba collecting is very big in Japan, my comments 'tho relate to the Habaki pics, as well as the closeups of the blade.
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Post by aussie-rabbit on May 8, 2013 15:40:42 GMT
And when a site states: " When a site says "SkyJiro was only making limited number of customed japanese swords in Queensland, Australia." we expect some truth to the statement. Instead we find the Queensland arm of the business: Leo W. 38 Laurel St, Enoggera, QLD, 4051, Australia is nothing but a house in the suburbs, check on Google maps. Meanwhile on David's site you can find the following: quote www.goldmountainforge.comA new addition to Kinzan's businesses. Is a partnership with a Master Chinese Swordsmith, Skyjiro Kinzan & SkyJiro own a sword making studio in the back country mountains of China where together they create several high grade sword lines for the martial artist and collector alike. end quote There is no reference to any forge in Queensland called Skyjiro or alternate spellings.
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Post by aussie-rabbit on May 8, 2013 15:47:32 GMT
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Post by Jussi Ekholm on May 8, 2013 16:29:21 GMT
Thanks for the review Judosailor. Many of us have been waiting for it. I'd say it looks quite good for 250$ sword, and I'm glad you are happy with it. I feel surprised to say this but after looking it for a while, I'm beginning to like that imitation hamon. I think it adds bit unique character to this sword, of course it will eventually probably rub off but still. I too think it might be wise to split the discussion about high cost Skyjiro swords to another thread, as it messes this good review a bit. As has been said Skyjiro doesn't have very good reputation in here (due to all events that have happened) but they already have a well established selling network in the USA and landing to Europe too. It's a huge asset to have good reputable sellers stocking your products. Bugei, Nihonzashi and Kult of Athena in US and Jordy's shop in the Netherlands. I agree that their entry swords look good for the price, but their higher offerings do not. I'm not commenting them in a negative way, but I must say my initial thought was similar to Vue, something in the polish remainds me of Huanuo polish. We do have a forum member who works for Skyjiro. Unfortunately he has only written one post and didn't answer any questions after that... Like has been said there has been plently of confusing things about the manufacturer, and it's unfortunate that the people associated with the company don't give accurate information. I personally think honesty is very important. I think it would be more beneficial to announce the facts clearly, as I think that would be more warmly welcomed in here too.
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Post by adamthedrummer on May 8, 2013 21:11:10 GMT
Funny... the hamon on judosailors blade looks more real than the $6700 dollar blade... generally I notice a thin line or spots separating the hamon from the rest of the steel...but who knows? Good review either way. :-)
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Post by LastGodslayer on May 8, 2013 22:20:57 GMT
Great review Judosailor!
Lots of nice things on this sword which surprised me and elevated my opinion on Skyjiro. I'm still cautious about them, but this has made me rethink by extremist position. Still find their approach wrong and misleading, but if people like unjustifiable folding with fake hamon, they have a market. Geometry looks good for 300ish sword. I do gripe with the unnecessary mysticism and unexplained relations to David Goldberg, who himself has had to defend himself against some business practices... Bugei, Nihonzashi, Kult of Athena, etc carrying them, only means they think they will sell. Nothing more.
Can't wait for a review on something higher end.
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Post by Judosailor on May 8, 2013 22:37:31 GMT
Thanks guys! Glad you found the review helpful.
I do think the relationship with David is pretty clear, though. He assists them on design and QC. And on the Goldmountain line he actually forges a few of them. I confirmed most of this with him via email and phone. I wouldn't know about any issues he's had in the past regarding his business practices. Also, I understand how a store carrying them doesn't really mean much. (Doesn't KoA carry Thaitsuki???) However, I was under the impression that Bugei only carries their own line of swords, and Skyjiro. So, if true, that would mean something, imo.
Edit: My mistake. Bugei does carry other swords like Hanwei as well.
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Post by kingrikoraru on May 8, 2013 23:09:49 GMT
A real hamon should never look like that. Most hamon are very subtle in nature. Fake hamon are that way because the forge wants to attract people to the sword or fooling new people
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Post by LastGodslayer on May 8, 2013 23:11:22 GMT
Well, Kinzan's relationship is obscure because he either is a Skyjiro smith, maybe even head smith, or he just smiths with them (teaches them in some way or another), and then the blades are made by skyjiro's smiths (kind of the setup Musashi had with Chris Zhou I think?). But its hard to tell who made their top end blades. Some pictures are the same as Kinzan's, but it is not said he made them, which takes me back to his "history" of rebuilding/repolishing blades from other forges and then selling them marked up without clearing stating he did not "make" them. I actually am a fan of some of his works and have posted my praises on youtube. That being said, I really like it when things are made clear and easy to make out, rather than contrived and obscure. As for retailers, heck, Bugei probably isn't moving a lot of swords what with that Hanwei fire (and the swords took a long time to come normally), so an additional source of revenue was needed as they can't really compete with other retailers on Hanwei pieces alone. Their choice on Skyjiro's line is probably a simple buy low sell high kind of thing. And if I do recall, they concealed the fact these blades were branded Skyjiro, they actually sold/sell them under "Bugei budget blades" or something... I dislike that kind of "obscurity".
By the way Judosailor, there is some karma for you!
Adam - I am with you on this one. To make something that mimics stylized caricatures of the original rather than the original is almost disrespectful. The newer guys that start with these blades might one day look at a nihonto and go like "Wha... Dat hamon don't POP!" Well, there is far worse out there....
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Post by adamthedrummer on May 9, 2013 0:34:30 GMT
I meant that the hamon on the crazy expensive blade looks very fake...exactly like a cheap th blade of my own...however if you zoom in on the tip...a very faint hamon can be made out... just an observation...it could be quite authentic...but the pictures don't do it any justice. But who cares??? I'm not buying it! Lol. :-)
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Post by kingrikoraru on May 9, 2013 2:51:42 GMT
Which blade is it? And yeah for that price you can get a nice antique one (In great great condition and signed too) or a nice gendaito or shinsakuto.
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