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Post by Librabys on Apr 24, 2013 23:11:23 GMT
I was just looking randomly on the net for jians and found this apparently antique sword for a very low price. The quality seems very good and it looks as it could still be used for heavy targets. (The blade seems to be in very good condition.) I am almost certain it is a real antique because of the complex old style ornementation. It looks to be peened in the tang too. we can even see a hamon on the folded steel blade. What do you guys think? (250 euro is approximatively 350$,that is indeed very cheap for a sword of this quality even for a new production sword) fr.ioffer.com/i/talisman-sheth-d ... -520974845 |
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Post by stickem on Apr 25, 2013 1:28:11 GMT
Reminds me of the Japanese Shrine Sect Ninja Sword Full Tang Katana FREE shipping
/thread/30503 |
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Post by chrisperoni on Apr 25, 2013 2:27:46 GMT
it is a piece of junk- false advertising with much unknown actual materials, build, quality. In short a rip off from a seller hoping to scam someone who does not know better.
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Post by Timo Nieminen on Apr 25, 2013 4:19:29 GMT
It isn't complex old style ornamentation, it's complex modern style ornamentation as seen on many, many modern fakes.
That isn't a hamon. It's a sanmei blade, and that's the middle layer. The edge of the middle layer, and the layers in the cladding are so prominent because it's acid-etched (in a style often seen on modern fakes, and not seen on antiques).
Sometimes these are peened, and sometimes they have a nut. You want to see a photo of the end of the pommel.
Of this quality? What is "this quality"? Some of these kinds of swords have OK blades, even good ones. Some have non-heat-treated blades. Some of them have OK fittings (I haven't seen one with good fittings yet). Some of them have really shoddy non-functional fittings. Some have excellent tangs, sufficient width and thickness with a good rounded transition to the blade (all forged, not ground down), and others have unsafe junk tangs. How can you tell where on that spectrum this one lies in terms of quality?
Seems expensive; you should be able to find its like on ebay for under $200 shipped (and I'd call those too expensive too).
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Post by Librabys on Apr 25, 2013 23:27:47 GMT
Thanks to all of you. As I never handled a real jian yet, I am not really good at seeing these things, even if I do know a little of theory. @timo: So I meant ''apparent quality'', and this perception was influenced by the ''apparent ancienthood''. That is true, as I think about it, that I never seen such ornementation on ancient swords before, only on furniture... It is also true that the seller does not inspire any trust, and ( stickem) this horribly translated title in the same fashion as your link was kind of ridiculous. I think I just got excited at first glance with the good looking blade, and it is true that one can give an old look to steel very easily with acid and other stuff. So I'll trust you all on that one, and will probably get a jin-shi even if the waiting kills me. Coldsteel Gim is appealing, but the non-traditionnal POB is a problem for me as I practice CMA with an accurately balanced (but not combat-ready) jian. I think I will only buy form unknown sellers if I can see the sword IRL firt. And anyway I do prefer a new sword, my sword, mine! My preciousssss... |
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Post by chrisperoni on Apr 26, 2013 1:47:22 GMT
Reading my post back today I want to say I did not mean for it to sound harsh- my apology if it did. I was directing my feeling at the seller- not at you Librabys.  When I look at the other swords for sale from that seller I can see they have active rust on them. this is new rust, which means the maker/seller is purposefully trying to make the swords look old. that is another sign of an untrustworthy practice. It's definitely a good thing to check here on SBG before paying for a sword from an online source like ebay or ioffer craigs list etc. etc. -those places have so many 1000's of scams for every 1 real find. It is a very good idea you have about getting to see the sword in person. Or even if you ask for more pictures.... if they can't or won't give you these that is a big red flag. Maybe they won't because they don't actually have the sword (like a drop ship seller). Maybe they won't because it would bring the flaws to light. And if you get those pics you can then have more to study and ask quesitons about. |
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Post by Timo Nieminen on Apr 26, 2013 4:13:52 GMT
I've come to the conclusion that it doesn't matter much where the PoB on a jian is; what really matters is where the forward pivot point (a.k.a. centre of percussion) is. For a jian, at or very close to the tip is where you want it. This is common for a wide range of cut/thrust swords, so this isn't something special for jian. Despite the PoB of the Cold Steel Gim being a little close in, the pivot point is spot-on, so I think it's well-balanced. Even the PoB isn't that bad; about 31% from the pommel, as opposed to the "ideal" 35% or so.
Haven't played with the Cold Steel jian, so can't say how they are. The Hanwei Chinese Cutting Sword is well-balanced, too (good pivot point, PoB at 33%), but it's a big sword.
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Post by Librabys on Apr 26, 2013 13:17:51 GMT
chrisperoni: That's ok, such practices deserves some hatred lol. And don't worry I'm used to way harsher people on the internet @timo: Thank you for making some light on this PoB issue. Well Even If I know from many sources that both CS gim and Hanwei cutting sword are great, I must say that I adore ancient styles as the Jin-shi's Han jian and tang jian. I may go for the tang though, because the oval section handle seems to be helpful for blade alignement, in contrast to the Han sword's round handle. Also, I will not lie that folded steel is pretty (call me superstitious but for me it adds ''life'' to the blade)
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Post by stickem on Apr 26, 2013 14:14:19 GMT
No worries. And no need to apologize for not being able to see the value of these things at first glance. That's why we're here  I pointed you to this other thread because if you look at the pics of the sword you posted, and then look at the pics of the swords in this other thread, the similarities become clear, right down to the taking of pics on a concrete floor part  My guess is all of these are made at the same place, which is to say, someone's basement... and are of similar quality, which is to say, sketchy. |
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Post by Librabys on Apr 26, 2013 18:23:26 GMT
Well, I've seen this sword... but again, I don't know where it is made and cannot be sure of the quality www.canadaknives.com/product_inf ... cts_id=178 I like this design a lot though. The more I think about it and the more I would go for a CS battle Gim. It seems more traditionnal and balance and looks as it can take a lot of abuse. I'm not enthousiast about the fittings design, but they are not that bad either... overall it seems like a very trustable jian. As I want my sword for summer I will wait next year to purchase a jin-shi ^^ |
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Taran
Member
Posts: 2,621
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Post by Taran on May 2, 2013 4:54:28 GMT
The 2nd iteration of the CS Gim was the best of that series, imo. It didn't have the added weight of the bat model and was more robust than the current model. The CS Battle Gim is closer to the second gim than the current one is.
If CS is your choice,the Battle Gim is where I would start unless you can find the previous CS Gim used somewhere.
Also good options:
Jin-Shi
Sinoswords (my reviews pending arrival of my scale, but so far, altogether good pieces)
Hanwei Cutting Jian
And (if you have the money) Seven Stars Trading
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Post by Librabys on May 2, 2013 13:28:51 GMT
Thank you for the advice, I ignored Jin Shi because I want my sword soon so I can practice with this summer. But I wrote to Garrett and it seems they have some Han Jians that will be ready to ship in mid-may. I will go for a jin-shi. I don't know if they are as much work horses as Cold Steel swords seems to be, but I love the aestetics and traditionnal look of jin-shi's. They seem to have great handling too.
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