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Post by mcapanelli on Apr 2, 2014 18:43:54 GMT
Its not a list from failed retailers. the endeavors fail because the swords end going awol. There's swords floating around out there from sales that have been over for years. IMO, its an unacceptable situation and its shocking that its tolerated. He makes great swords but essentially he overbooks himself and elves the vendors holding the bag as they were the ones that received the orders and took the deposits. To the best of my knowledge there has never been an Atrim vendor that didn't deliver when the blades were available.
Your absolutely right in saying that if this were DSA we'd crash the boards. The main fear, at least IMO, is that enough negativity will force a maker out of the business and limit choice for collectors, but the irony is situations like this,and the people that support it, only hurt the industry and end up limiting choice.
While I'd like to see the buyers from the years of undelivered swords come together, it'd be a mess of a law suit and it'd invariably hurt people that simply failed due to misplaced faith. Who do you go after? There's a list of vendors that have closed their doors due to the blades simply never being delivered. Take tried and true. Tom is a cutler, not a smith. He started that venture to get Gus back in the game and be part of an industry he loved. I think Tom is an upstanding guy and I'd bet my firstborn he never in a million years intended to bail and take people's money, but if the blades don't come in to fill orders and the money has already gone to the smith for the blades, what's he supposed to do? Remember that he doesn't make the blades, he just mounts them. So if he sent the money down to Gus to get materials to fill his orders and the bales never come, its still his neck on the chopping block because his business took the money and put int he order in good faith. It forces him to not only have his reputation trashed for something he really can't control, but possibly opens him to legal action, all for believing that this time it'd be different.
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TomK
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Post by TomK on Apr 2, 2014 19:17:53 GMT
I have recently received three swords from Gus. I have to finish the grips on two of them yet, but here's the problem I'm having: people have not been answering their emails. so here's what I'm gonna do: I'm going to finish them (this week I think) and make another attempt to contact their owners. for the Falchion and the XII.1 if I do not get a response from their owners I will offer them to the next customer in line for that style. for the tactical Jian if the owner does not respond soon I will sell it to the public for enough money to cover a refund to him and he'll get a refund. Gus tells me more should be coming soon, but I don't count chickens until they have hatched or swords until they have arrived. oh yes, almost forgot a picture:
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Post by steelhound on Apr 2, 2014 19:51:18 GMT
Hey Tom, good to see you, and nice looking swords!
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Post by Rabel Dusk on Apr 2, 2014 19:54:24 GMT
It's hard for me and many others to absolutely condemn Gus Trim.In the past he was such a force in the business, and along with Tinker, such a creative innovator. In the early years of this century his swords were delivered without much problem. For what it's worth, neither he or his vendors set out to cheat their customers, but the situation got way out of their control, and it looks to be beyond repair or redemption. Of course it's easier for me to say all this, since he doesn't owe me a sword. A great swordmaker, but a really bad businessman.
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Post by steelhound on Apr 2, 2014 20:05:47 GMT
While I've only been in the ATrim game for about 5 years or so, this is also my outlook on Gus and his business. He's an extremely nice person to talk with and makes fantastic swords, but the business side of things is a mess. It's unfortunate that good guys like Tom and Hiroshi are put in such a bad situation, but Tom just posted an update with a few swords that have arrived, so progress is being made on the backlog: viewtopic.php?f=3&t=20910
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Post by Arwyn on Apr 2, 2014 20:26:01 GMT
Good to hear Tom. I would imagine that jian will go fast if it does go up. I will keep an eye out for sure if it does.
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Post by Arwyn on Apr 2, 2014 20:47:08 GMT
Gus is making swords for previous orders. Thats actually to his credit that he is still trying to fulfill them. You can occasionally see a sword or two show up new. As blades complete, you will see orders that didn't ship for one reason or another get offered up for sale. It doesn't happen very often. Its either someone cancelled, or they cant reach the purchaser. In the last few years there has been just a handful of new swords that have shown up that way.
Normally, the only way to score an Atrim is via the forums for a pre-owned blade. Occasionally ebay has one.
Gus is a decent guy, and he is trying to fill orders. The reason this is tolerated, IMO, is because Gus IS a decent guy, and he IS trying to fill orders. While the situation sounds bad, there have been plenty of horror stories of folks paying for blades, or putting money down on an order with other vendors that vanish never to be heard from again. In comparison, Gus's situation is way better, but still not great. If the buyers organize to hammer him, they run the risk of him shutting down completely. Then no one wins. Its not an ideal situation for anyone.
Gus has done a lot for the community, has been a stand up guy, and was always a great smith, and has a great product, and is trying to do the right thing. Once again, IMO, I believe that's the reason that folks are being as patient as they are.
I would agree with you that the situation would be different for other vendors. To avoid any accidental sparks and resulting conflagration, it generally goes to the reputation the vendors have built for themselves on the boards and in interactions with the community. The sword community is still pretty small, so reputation is a big deal, and the pool of people that interact in it are small, so those opinions and interactions carry a lot of weight.
To Gus's credit, IMO, the bank of good will he has built up over the years has gone a long way to keeping the situation from boiling over like it would have for some of the other vendors/smiths that are out there.
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Post by Rabel Dusk on Apr 2, 2014 21:09:38 GMT
These days, the best way to get one of his swords is to buy one of Valiant Armoury's offerings. Yes, they are Chinese made, but they are ATrim designed. Otherwise you must be ready to jump on one of the infrequent Evolution Armoury offerings.
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Post by john570 on Apr 2, 2014 22:27:56 GMT
Atrims pop up in a classifieds from time to time as well.
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Post by john570 on Apr 2, 2014 22:32:00 GMT
Thanks for the update Tom and good to see you back. Man those are some hot swords. I'd love to get my hands on the XII.1 and falchion.
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Post by chrisperoni on Apr 2, 2014 22:35:52 GMT
you should post in your semi monthly atrim update thread - might find people who have subscribed to that thread for updates
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Post by steelhound on Apr 2, 2014 23:00:45 GMT
That thread was recently moved to the Medieval Sword section, but I did post a link there to this thread.
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Post by Uncle Mack on Apr 3, 2014 1:55:41 GMT
I think you misunderstood the reason for my question... I would be really pi$$ed if I had put down a few hundred buck for an ATrim in 2011 or 2012, hadn't gotten that sword, but could buy new in-stock ATrims somewhere else ... Sure, a man has to eat, but he should fill the outstanding orders first.
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Aaron
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Post by Aaron on Apr 3, 2014 2:05:43 GMT
Eh, you can't really get new Atrims anywhere. Evolution Arms occasionally has some, but it's not like Gus is really "putting off" old orders to make swords for some other vendor. IIRC, he has his heat treating done by an aerospace company, so he has to do them in batches of similarly-sized blades. If he doesn't have enough orders for single-handed swords to make a whole batch, he needs to make some extra blades to make up a full batch to send to heat treat. These extra blades are (I believe) the ones sent to be sold by the likes of Evolution Arms, but they're just a method to help him complete orders faster. I know it seems counter-intuitive unless you understand the process he goes through to heat treat the blades.
Don't take this as justification for what's happened with Gus, though. As good as his swords are, as as happy as I am that I was able to get one when I did, what is currently going on (and what's been going on for many years now) is totally unacceptable and I am glad that the community seems to be putting its foot down.
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Sean (Shadowhowler)
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Post by Sean (Shadowhowler) on Apr 3, 2014 5:09:05 GMT
Sadly, like many things in life, its a lot more complicated then it seems. :? Its not as simple as 'This guy is good, but this guy is bad' or even 'This guy is good, but this guy dropped the ball'... in all these situations, there is enough fault and unexpected issues to go around. None of the people involved are all to blame or blameless. The issues with getting atrim swords (and lets admit it, we all want them because they are awesome) over the past few years is a tangled mess of health issues, personal issues, bad luck, tough circumstances and bad choices. I'm not forgiving or condoning the situation... I just know all the players and a lot more about the reasons behind things then some, and I'm sad for most everyone involved. Its good to see Tom post some info on new swords... and its good that Gus is still trying to work his way threw this and is not just throwing up his hands and saying "*&^% it." My hope is that there is a light at the end of the tunnel, and when it is reached this situation will be avoided in the future by no one pre-ordering unmade swords anymore... people will just buy them as they come into stock. This is a practice I'm leaning strongly to in ALL my sword buying, not just with Atrim swords... as I see this sort of problem come up again and again with many different makers/vendors.
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Post by mcapanelli on Apr 3, 2014 13:24:41 GMT
This makes me happy. I'm glad to see your backlog finally being worked on. I'll hold on hope that it'll be seen though to fruition.
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Post by m_westin on Apr 6, 2014 19:49:17 GMT
I ordered over 2 years ago and am still waiting... I had lost hope until stumbling across this thread. Maybe, just maybe, mine will show up.
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Post by mcapanelli on Apr 7, 2014 13:17:23 GMT
Who did you place your order with?
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Post by m_westin on Apr 7, 2014 15:26:41 GMT
Tried and True
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Post by mcapanelli on Apr 7, 2014 17:54:56 GMT
Well you're certainly in the right thread then. As far as I know Gus is working not he backlog, for whatever that's worth. Its really a tough position for both you and T&T to be in, as Tom doesn't manufacture the blades, he only mounts them. I feel for you man. I'd subscribe to this thread and shoot some PM's to Tom if you haven't already.
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