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Post by chrisperoni on Feb 25, 2014 7:52:22 GMT
Since Tom has contact with Gus, and also references the pay off the machine sale, I think it's fair to look for those 7+ year old sword through here.
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Post by William Swiger on Feb 25, 2014 13:21:11 GMT
I suppose the people who have been left hanging from before the Tried and True venture could contact TomK via pm to see if he will provide a direct contact to Gus. I seriously doubt TomK will assist with trying to get those orders filled though as his focus is to clear out the T&T backlog he is responsible for.
Buyers can look here but direct sales by Gus and previous vendors that have not been filled is the responsibility of Gus and the previous vendors. Maybe people who have been left hanging from previous dealers/vendors/Gus direct can contact Tom or any current vendor to see if they will assist.
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Post by mcapanelli on Feb 25, 2014 14:08:09 GMT
Maybe you could set up a separate thread looking for people from the previous sales. I think if people like yourself and others who got stiffed during the "pay off the machine" sale got together the numbers might make the parties involved take notice. If enough of you get together you may even be able to seek legal recourse. This community has played apologist for too long and as long as we continue to do so we'll always have stories like yours. The bottom line is when stuff like this happens and we allow it by making excuses for the manufacturer or vendor we end up inadvertently hurting the community as people from the outside thinking about beginning collecting will be less likely to take the plunge with higher priced wears due to situations like the aforementioned and our continued apologist attitudes. Its bad for the health of the industry, bad for the artists we admire that serve their people on time and communicate well, and serves only to limit our choices.
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Post by john570 on Feb 25, 2014 16:45:15 GMT
Still hopping Tom will pop up with an update.
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Post by johnwalter on Feb 26, 2014 14:08:42 GMT
So,,,I may be mssing something here,,,but why is this maker still associated with this forum?
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Post by William Swiger on Feb 26, 2014 14:57:12 GMT
Gus does not have a Manufacture and Vendor account on this forum. We have had members become vendors for ATRIM products and one who currently sells in-stock items. These are private ventures between the parties and not an official association between Gus and SBG (Paul) by any means.
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Post by johnwalter on Feb 26, 2014 15:06:28 GMT
I figured I was missing something Thanks for setting me straight Bill.And with all the praise heaped on his swords by so many respected people.Guess this is one maker Ill just avoid,if I ever bite the Euro bullet that is,hahaha.
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Post by Student of Sword on Mar 4, 2014 3:05:46 GMT
I have 3 ATRIM swords and they are my best Euro swords. Unfortunately I will only buy in-stock items.
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Post by john570 on Mar 31, 2014 20:23:18 GMT
Has anyone heard any news at all about the T&T backlog? I haven't heard from Tom in forever and wanted to see if I should just give up hope.
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Post by mcapanelli on Mar 31, 2014 23:17:16 GMT
Last I read Gus was giving it his full attention. Whether that means there's light at the end of the tunnel or not is entirely up to you.
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Post by john570 on Apr 1, 2014 16:04:12 GMT
That's what I keep hearing but none of mine ever seem to pop up. Still waiting on four swords from Gus only one from T&T though.
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Post by William Swiger on Apr 1, 2014 16:24:22 GMT
I wish you folks luck and hope you get your sword(s) someday. Holding out hope is fine but there is a line forming with people from previous ATRIM ventures that also have been left hanging. I personally do not understand why this brand still has a customer base.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 1, 2014 19:02:55 GMT
This is why i fear very much to get into custom swords; no offense to the proper guys of course! But it seems to me as at least some of them jiggle financially on a razors edge, take too much orders or both...I believe that this must be a hard biz but i am REALLY scared off!
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Post by mcapanelli on Apr 1, 2014 19:37:03 GMT
I agree, but I don't totally blame the makers. IMO its as much the communities fault as the makers that do stuff like this because we seem to reward both good and bad behavior with business. If we want a healthy community with mares and vendors that deliver then we need to talk about and punish bad practices so those that do keep their word and deliver in a reasonable time with good communication can be rewarded with a smaller playing field and therefore more business. The offending businesses would either have to adjust their model and operate in a similar fashion to the reputable ones or would be forced out of business. As long as we keep fairly silent about the good transactions and defend our favorite maker for making bad decisions and maintaining poor business practices you can expect this to continue.
I ordered a Regenyei maybe a little over a year ago. When I ordered he told me straight up that his wait time for custom swords was about a year. January rolled around and I got an email that my sword was almost ready. See how that worked? I ordered at the end of 2012, waited a little more than a year, band now I have the sword. He didn't say three months and stop replying to emails 6 months after the delivery date passed. He didn't take a large deposit and disappear for a few years while I was left to contact other vendors about an order they had nothing to do with. He gave a date, stuck close to it, and delivered. Guess what? I'll go back to peter next time I need a custom sword. Its really not that hard.
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Post by Arwyn on Apr 1, 2014 21:29:17 GMT
That is a legitimate fear. I waited a long time before I went custom, precisely because of the issues I saw on forums about things not getting done on time, or ever, and being out cash. I really really like my Atrim swords. They are fantastic blades. That being said, there is absolutely NO way I would ever put money down on one.
The Atrim timeline is a good warning to the hazards of going custom. Gus started making swords as a hobby. His prices were production, and he made/makes an excellent sword for the money. The forum folks recognized this and gave him great reviews. Word of mouth spread, and more folks started buying his blades, and he could sell them as fast as he made them.
As became apparent though several ventures, he is a great smith, but not as talented when it comes to business. Sword orders outstripped sword production, but folks were still happy with the result, they just had to wait. Normally, when businesses start to experience demand outstripping supply, they raise prices to act as a brake on demand. That didn't happen here. While the goal of keeping swords affordable was great, it meant that Atrims were very popular, and very cheap in comparison.
There were several attempts to move the "business" side off to another company and let the smith focus on swords. Those attempts failed. That was the red flag going up on the business model. It didn't get any better. With Gus having to work full time, smithing was a part time endeavor. That didn't help the supply problem. There were some other attempts made to "fix" the business model. Same result, failed. In the mean time, orders kept rolling in, and the backlog continued to build. At some point, someone should have put the brakes on orders, until the backlog cleared, but that didn't happen.
Long story short, Gus is buried under a huge backlog of unfilled orders. He is long gone from the community, since his name is mud with a lot of collectors who have been waiting years for a sword. Folks have tried to resurrect the business, but fundamentally you cannot make money filling old orders, and taking new orders is a disservice to the folks that have already paid for a blade. No win scenario.
Atrims are great blades, and I jump on them when they come up for sale. But I will ONLY buy product in hand with an Atrim.
There are plenty of good smiths out there, who do a good job, and deliver on time. You WILL pay for those smiths, because they have figured out how to do the the swords and pay the bills. Mikes example above is spot on. Thats exactly what to look for, honesty and delivering on promises.
While I think everyone involved in this business endeavor in this went in with good intentions, I think they were doomed to repeat history. Just my 2 cents....
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Post by john570 on Apr 1, 2014 22:24:26 GMT
I have a few atrims I ordered from evolution arms that I'm waiting on. It's been a bit but I must say like a champ Marc has always come through in the end. But I don't know if I should just forget about the XIIa.4 I ordered from T&T and get one from the classifieds. I just wish Gus himself would get some info down the grape vine on a regular basis. About what will be ready soon and what we will still have to wait for. I think that would solve a lot of the problems. Even bad news is better then no news. I think being in dark with info on what's up is one of the main things that's pissing off most of the atrim customers other then waiting.
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Post by chrisperoni on Apr 1, 2014 23:36:43 GMT
I just don't get how someone who was so active on the forum can ignore everyone for so long. Someone really ought to press the issue and take real action.
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Post by mcapanelli on Apr 2, 2014 0:40:20 GMT
It seems to me you've been in the community for a long while no? Your appraisal of Gus's situation is spot on. From the Dwag days through All Saints and SFI ventures to today, its been a mess. The problem was that Gus undervalued his work and when he tried to raise prices he was met with resistance as quality AND low price point both became tied to the Atrim name. There's STILL unfilled orders from the pay off the machine sale!!!?! As Gus isn't getting any younger the situation only gets worse for those that have been waiting for years to have their swords made. He makes great stuff and if I'm in a position to sang one when its available I will but I absolutely will not put money down to order one.
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Post by BlackSwordsman on Apr 2, 2014 1:16:56 GMT
My order paid on January 9 2012. Not happy about the wait, but would not mind so much if updates were more consistent.
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Post by Uncle Mack on Apr 2, 2014 16:08:16 GMT
I haven't been a member of the sword community for very long (under a year or so), so this scenario just baffles me... Is Gus currently making swords for retailers but still has backlog of orders from other (failed) companies/sellers? Could I go and buy a brand new ATrim somewhere? And people are ok with that? I'm sure Gus is a decent guy, but would it take much to create an email address, ask who is missing swords, and create an excel spreadsheet of unfulfilled orders? I know a few have said something, but it shocks me no one has tried to organize the group of buyers. Not to throw gas on a fire, but if DSA pulled something like this, I think members would crash the message board.
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