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Post by Deleted on Apr 18, 2013 13:37:04 GMT
I'm a little confused on why the blades of katana's differ in color, I understand when a blade is polished correctly, the beauty starts to come out. For example: the hamon in most Japanese blades or Howard Clark blades are usually white or a lighter color and the hada or grain is usually black or a darker color. Now if you look at higher end Chinese made katana's or just other katana's in general you will see the hamon is black or darker and the hada white or lighter. Now you will also see katana's with the mirror type polish. I don't understand why the mirror katana's don't have that lighter and darker metals. This confuses me because my next purchase will be a katana with a more higher end polish, the hazuya stone method.
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Post by Jussi Ekholm on Apr 18, 2013 15:14:18 GMT
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Post by Deleted on Apr 19, 2013 2:56:10 GMT
thanks for the info jussi. Now I know the difference but it still doesn't explain why some blades for example ronin elite katana's the hamon is black and the ji is white. is it just the angles and lighting. Attachments:
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Post by Adrian Jordan on Apr 19, 2013 3:11:03 GMT
Most modern production swords use acid etching to finish the blade, as a traditional polish is long, very skilled and very expensive. This is the reason you see the reversal in colors, i.e whiter body and darker hamon.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 20, 2013 4:08:10 GMT
so what your telling me (Adrian.jordan) what im seeing is a fake polish job, but a real hamon
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Post by Adrian Jordan on Apr 20, 2013 4:34:56 GMT
Well, not so much fake as just non-traditional. A lot of the levels of a full-blown polish are not so much to improve the function of the sword, but the aesthetics of the blade. A partial abrasive, partial acid polish is commonly referred to as a "hybrid polish" and most production, as well as many custom, makers use it. A traditional polish can cost anywhere from $25 to $100 an inch. This isn't feasible on a sword that costs $200 to $1000 out the door. I do personally prefer the white hamon/dark body look myself.
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Marc
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Post by Marc on Apr 20, 2013 13:32:52 GMT
Just to set an exemple, here is a traditional polish on a production katana. I think this kind of polish really ad to the aesthetic of the blade, but tend to show more the scratches when used. It's all a question of taste. EDIT: the crop of the photo is pretty bad, if someone can help me with that.* worked on the pic instead.
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Post by OttoVonFaart on Apr 20, 2013 13:48:18 GMT
Right click and select "View Image"
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Post by frankthebunny on Apr 20, 2013 17:56:37 GMT
A lot of this color difference you see in pictures does in fact come down to lighting and photography. When you see a traditionally polished blade(without acid etching) in person it can often appear to be almost mirror polished over the whole surface when in fact it has many different attributes and textures going on.
A flash or certain angles of lighting can make the hamon pop out and appear very white where in other shots the same hamon can appear very dark or black while the rest looks white. An acid etched blade will also make the hamon look light and the rest of the blade has a darker grey tone due to the chemical reaction the acid has on the steel. This is a way to give the appearance of a traditional polish which has a similar effect but by using stones and techniques to bring out different tones.
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Marc
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Post by Marc on Apr 20, 2013 18:46:24 GMT
Has stated by Frank, this is a lot a question of lightning and angles (maybe due to the different Crystal structure in the steel). Like I said in another post, being at an nihonto exposition lately in Montreal, I looked like a total moron :oops: , on my knees to have the good reflexion on the blades to be able to really see the hamon and others characteristics.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 21, 2013 13:53:53 GMT
If you guys saw my pictures you can see that i got a pretty decent polish for a rookie, the highest grit I've used was 3000. Would you guys recommend me using those man made Japanese whetstone starting at 6000 grit and purchasing the hazuya and jizuya stones from ebay. I know someone will say I shouldn't do this, but I want to give it a try and teach myself these steps so i can repair my blades. Plus I love doing it. It took me 9 days to get the blade where its at right now, so I use patience in polishing. I'm also unsure if I need to buy rust powder(don't know name) to mix with something that I don't know of, and apply to the H.or J. stone.
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Post by shoboshi on Apr 26, 2013 2:03:38 GMT
Japanese stones and hazuya and jizuya are an investment option you will have to make on your own. I am not a polisher but one thing I do know is that modern steels do not always react to these things the same way a nihonto would. Besides the cost of a traditional polish, this is one of the reasons you see things like acid etch or hybrid polish. It is what is necssary for modern steels in many cases, if you want to see the hamon 'pop'.
For a lot of the modern production katana, it is simply the most cost effective route, and is likely why the steel is whitish while the hamon more dark. Personally, I like it the other way, but to each his own.
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Post by LastGodslayer on Apr 26, 2013 13:10:12 GMT
FWYI, this is own personal opinion from what I've read and what I've seen on the blades I try to polish.
It is kind of a general misunderstanding that hazuya and jizuya will enable anyone to polish the hamon into a stereotypical white sheen.
These stones WILL polish the steel, but both kinds of stones are selected by the polisher to match the properties of the steel on the specific blade.
Within "hazuya" there are quite a lot of differences in the stones that match this denomination, namely, they have varying levels of hardness, fineness and composition, which are then matched by the polisher to the specific hardness, crystal structure and end effect of the hamon on the blade. Its even harder to select good jito, as these are even harder stones, and if too hard they will obliterate the hada, too soft, they will not get the desired contrast.
Then there is the issue that modern steels wear differently from tamahagane and even from powdered steels (the same reason why nugui won't work either). What really good polishers do is polishing the different structures on the blade at different rates to get the desired contrast. The hamon can be "painted over" with a hard stone but this will mostly end up making it look glazed rather that white. How Ted Tenold, Chirs Osborne and Keith Larman do what they do with modern steel blades like those from Howard Clark and Rick Barret is beyond me.
You can always meet them half way and hybrid polish though...
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