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Post by Deleted on May 16, 2007 11:20:00 GMT
Fascinating! When the Assyrians and Babalonians conquered and took portions of Israel and Judeah it was at a time, as youu pointed out, when the Israelites were weak and split apart, etc.. I have often wondered what would have happened had either of them, or someone like them, tried to invade Israel when it was at its highest in strength and culture, under David or Solomon? From what the Bible says about God loving and protecting David and Solomon, then if one is to take the Bible literally, then it seems that God would have stepped in helped them.
I agree also with you in that the rank and file of Israelite forces wore no armor, just "top dogs" and special forces such as palace guards, etc.. FB
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Post by Deleted on May 16, 2007 12:30:50 GMT
Hey Akuz., Here is some info I found about the Israelite military under King David. It is neat in that it refers to his military being in Corps. Here it is:
Chosen by God "as a man according to His own heart", David was tried in the school of suffering during the days of exile and developed into a military leader of renown. To him was due the complete organization of the army. He gave Israel a capital, a court, a great centre of religious worship. The little band at Odollam became the nucleus of an efficient force. When he became King of all Israel there were 339,600 men under his command. At the census 1,300,000 were enumerated capable of bearing arms. A standing army, consisting of twelve corps, each 24,000 men, took turns in serving for a month at a time as the garrison of Jerusalem. The administration of his palace and his kingdom demanded a large retinue of servants and officials. Their various offices are set down in I Par., xxvii. The king himself exercised the office of judge, though Levites were later appointed for this purpose, as well as other minor officials.
I thought you might find that interesting. I wonder if those 12 corps were each from its own tribe, representing the 12 tribes? Later, FB
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Post by Deleted on May 16, 2007 23:00:08 GMT
I assume that each corp represented one tribe, as twelve are the corps and twelve are the tribes. Again being able to have all that manpower would mean that Israel was indeed one of the powers in the region. But there are somethings that are murky. After Solomon's reign (which in theory was even grander than David's), when the 10 northern tribes elected a new king outside David's bloodline, the national borders were already diminished by the geographic descriptions of the borders of the kingdom. The two faithful tribes Judah and Benjamin, who were south remained a small constrained kingdom, almost always at odds with the larger Israelite kingdom. That doesn't make much sense, in matter of days an empire that stretched from the Mediterranean Sea to the Euphrates River could not disintegrate save a foreign conquest, which was not the case. Soon enough, the Egyptians assaulted Jerusalem, carrying away the golden shields of the Temple. In the north, things were cumsi cumsa until the reign of Ahab and Jezebel, after them only one strong king, Jehu, annoitted by God Himself (as the Bible says) reigned until the Assyrian conquest. Judah survived the Assyrians, but would be conquered in less than a century by the NeoBabylonians.
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Post by rammstein on May 16, 2007 23:39:54 GMT
This is slightly unrelated but did anyone see the opera "Samson et Dalila "by Saint-Saëns? Quite a good piece Anyway, is there any historical precedence of the story of samson and delilah? (I know zilch about this time period as is probably obvious ;D)
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Post by Deleted on May 17, 2007 1:43:25 GMT
Samson is another of my Biblical heroes. I think I am going to re-read the old testement simply for historical enjoyment. I have read that they have found the old testement to be historically correct. FB
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Post by Deleted on May 17, 2007 23:11:53 GMT
Samson was one of the last three Judges to rule Israel during the timeframe between the conquest of Palestine or Caanan and the kingship of Saul. Samson was a Nazirite or holy man, however he was far from holy, as he like mundane things over the spirit. On his behalf, on his time as Judge, no Israelite had to serve the Philistines, or was enslaved by anyone. Samson's sin was lust, and for guiding himself by what his eyes gazed upon, he had them gouged. In an objective point of view, he a big if; he had potential to be a messiah upon his people, free them from the wars against Philistia by crushing them, but marred in mediocrity because he could not take his eyes from Philistian women, and let go his desires run wild.
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Post by Deleted on May 18, 2007 2:06:08 GMT
Have they ever found that big temle that he supposedly brought down killing himself and a bunch of Philistines? FB
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Post by Deleted on May 18, 2007 2:16:22 GMT
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Post by Deleted on May 20, 2007 14:07:00 GMT
They may have used the kopesh as an inspiration for their swords, hence the curvature, although a kopesh has BOTH a straight and a curved edge (compound weapon?)
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Post by rammstein on May 20, 2007 14:11:49 GMT
The kopesh combined the slicing of a curved sword with the point alignment of the straight sword. Lets see ANYONE call the ancients "stupid" again as I've not seen any other sword this ingenious
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Post by Deleted on May 21, 2007 4:31:47 GMT
the curve of the khopesh is more representative of an axe than a sword, but it had the dynamics of a curved sword. The sword in that picture of goliath being beheaded looks like a scimitar which would actually make sense. There was a documentary on SBS about how they found evidence of david's kingdom and found lots of evidence to support other events on the bible. The bible is a story but that doesn't mean it wasn't true
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Post by Deleted on May 22, 2007 2:26:49 GMT
right on Bloodwraith karma on you!!!!!!!!!
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Post by skystone on Aug 20, 2009 20:24:30 GMT
I remember coming across something interesting that relates to this thread. Look around the web for , The Emerald Tablets of Toth, I believe that is what it is called. It has some interesting parts about claims of the rulers of ancient Egypt to be from Atlantis. Also if my memory serves me yes the Sea Peoples were a mixed band of marauders but the vast bulk of them the originators I guess you could say didn't they call themselves the "Danu " or Danue? I
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Post by Deleted on Aug 21, 2009 0:53:44 GMT
This thread is extremely old, but I am glad that skystone revived it, as it has proven to be very enlightening. Please do continue to post information.
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Post by Deleted on Oct 12, 2009 22:08:05 GMT
I know this is an old thread, but I think a good book for those interested might be Herzog and Gichon's Battles of the Bible. It's a military treatment of the Biblical account, without much going into the religious aspects of it.
I do believe that archeology has proven for the most part the entire text of the old testament save for Adam and Eve; even the Flood has historic and scientific proof backing it now. I've seen where they think a comet or meteor struck in the Indian Ocean, causing a massive hurricane and tidal waves. Which would have caused 40 days and nights of rain, and massive flooding (as well as earthquakes). However, I'll let others better read on the subject comment on that.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 2, 2009 17:57:50 GMT
Hey akuzokuzan, But I thought the Bible said his weapons were of iron but his armor was of brass? FB His Helm and Coat of Maille were Bronze. and weighed at least 125 lbs. { Link to I Samuel 17:1-11} Incidentally, so was the armor that King Saul tried to strap onto David. Remember that Goliath (who was "anakim", sometimes translated "Son of Anak") was a warrior of great prowess and carried the finest of weapons and armor, equal to the King of Israel's arms. David's response in I Samuel 21 gives us reason to believe that, even though the Philistines knew the ways of iron, iron weapons were not common. (See I Samuel 21:9) I also realized that growing up, I had been taught that the rock from the sling killed Goliath, but the word order in vs. 51 leads me to think that Goliath was merely felled by the rock and his cause of death was David using the sword on him. { Link to I Samuel 17:50-54}
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Post by Deleted on Dec 2, 2009 19:27:22 GMT
The way that reads, it seems like David used Goliath's own sword on him. I could be wrong, but it's something I'll be researching tonight. The Bible is a great source for archaeological interpretation.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 3, 2009 2:01:25 GMT
The way that reads, it seems like David used Goliath's own sword on him. I could be wrong, but it's something I'll be researching tonight. The Bible is a great source for archaeological interpretation. Other version are more clear about Golaith getting his head chopped off with his own sword.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 3, 2009 2:49:58 GMT
Anakim, one of the last of the Nephilim or of the line of the Nephilim. What I find interesting and a little off topic is when you read the sagas like beowulf about Grendel and his mother. Maybe there were sea dwelling nephilim that survived the flood and the events of Beowulf have some measure of truth to them. There are events and creatures that show up across a multitude of cultures that make me wonder if they weren't or aren't actually real. Like the dragon and the kraken and a few others, I mean we have documented evidence of massive squid, why is it so hard to believe that one could grow large enough to be a kraken.
Back to David and Goliath, I believe that David killed Goliath with the stone and then cut his head off as a trophy, as proof that he had done this mighty deed. I am surprised that david could lift Goliath's sword, but God was on his side, so maybe not that unbelievable.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 3, 2009 12:15:56 GMT
If you want to know where the Nephilim comes from, the book of Enoch gives info about that. The book was part of the Qumran find.
It has actually been one of the most influental books in pre Biblical times and referred to by the gospel writers and church fathers (there is quotes and references in the Bible to the book). It explains how the fallen angels corrupts mankind, and because of this it would probably threaten the early churchs idea of the original sin and consistency of a streamlined Bible.
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