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Post by Frothbyte on Feb 23, 2013 20:41:21 GMT
So if I bought a Hanwei torino, solingen, or gustav rapier with a blunt/unsharpened edge and put a rubber blunt on the tip, could I then safely use it for sparring or competitions? This is of course considering that we're wearing protective gear. I know that you can just swap out it's original blade for a practical replacement blade but I find these too wobbly and was looking for something a bit stiffer. Just not sure if the Hanwei rapier's original blades are too stiff for sparring?
In the HEMA school where we fence, we use Hanwei practical rapiers and Schlager blades for practice. Some of the other students (and especially instructors) do bring their own private rapiers and most of them own Darkwood rapiers which are quite stiffer than the practicals. I sparred with my instructor who uses a Darkwood rapier and got hit multiple times but not once did I consider it painful. So how does the stiffness of a Hanwei rapier compare to that of a Darkwood rapier?
Another student let me try out her Darkwood rapier and after that I decided that if I'm going to buy my own rapier, I would definitely get something stiffer than the practicals we use for practice since I realized how much more wobbly the practicals and schlagers are. I don't have the funds for a Darkwood rapier though (especially since I'm going to buy 2, one for me and one for my wife who goes to class with me) so I'm looking at getting a Hanwei. Just want to know if I could still spar with the Hanwei's original blade as long as I put a rubber blunt?
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Lunaman
Senior Forumite
Posts: 3,974
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Post by Lunaman on Feb 23, 2013 23:22:44 GMT
Again. No.
Hanwei 'sharp' rapiers ARE fairly flexy for the types most of them are representing, but you should never use a sharp as a sparring weapon, even if you've blunted it from the factory edge (which will reduce its overall structural integrity). I can't even believe this is a serious question.
Buy a purpose-made blunt. Saving a little money at the outset and having a nifty-looking hilt isn't worth seriously injuring people when your equipment fails.
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Post by Onimusha on Feb 23, 2013 23:44:43 GMT
Come on now. Nobody's born with knowledge. Everything we know, we had to learn. You learn by asking questions.
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Post by kurokaze on Feb 23, 2013 23:50:56 GMT
This page on MyArmoury might be of interest: www.myarmoury.com/review_casi_gustav.htmlIt seems the sharp blades are rather flexible, and no stiffer than their schlager blades. Mr. Grandy did, however, convert his into a practice blade as a cheap club loaner, so (if you have metal shop experience) I don't see why it wouldn't be possible. Have you considered Triplette/Zen Warrior? Their blades are stiffer and a good deal heavier. www.zenwarriorarmory.com/
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Razor
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Posts: 1,883
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Post by Razor on Feb 24, 2013 0:46:37 GMT
The Hanwei Practicals and schlagers are good enough for training, sparring, and competition. And actually would be better in competitions, because the judges will see the bend better when you make a hit and call the hit. I train and have fought in rapiers competitions. We used to train and fight with Zen Warriors training rapier blades until we went to our first competitions. My training partner almost didn't get to fight in one tournament because his blade was to stiff. Another one we weren't getting or hits called because they didn't see our blade flex. Plus the stiffer training blades hit harder and leaves big bruises( like grapefruit, cantaloupe size) when sparring. After the tournament we ordered the schlager blades and now we get all our hits called, plus we can go full contact when training and sparring. The blade on the rapier is the schlager and the blade by itself is the rapier blade.
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Post by StevenJ on Feb 24, 2013 0:49:57 GMT
Was right about to suggest Zen Warrior. I own two of them as apart of Adrian Empire and they work well. I have their Dennis Graves Spanish Cup Hilt with 37 Rapier blade and Court Sword with 37 Schlager blade. There isn't that much difference between their Schlager and Rapier blade really. They work well, their customer service is superb, and their swords are built well. There are faults, their hilts are prone to spinning around on those circular tangs and as a result do require periodic tightening. They are fine other than that. I would also look at www.alcheminc.com/fencing.html as I heard good things about them. The neat thing about alchem is for $10 extra they can curve the blade, turning it into a sabre. I plan on getting them to build me a sabre for Rapier fencing sometime in the near future. I love Rapier fencing, it is fun, you do not have to put on heavy armor, and very quick.
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Razor
Senior Forumite
Posts: 1,883
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Post by Razor on Feb 24, 2013 0:53:18 GMT
Actually there is a big difference with their schlager and rapier blades. read and look at my pics in my post right before yours.
Hanwei's hilts are better than Zen's hilts. Zen's rapiers are looked at as the lower end training rapiers. But I still like mine and had it for many years.
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Post by StevenJ on Feb 24, 2013 0:57:37 GMT
I'll check them again, I haven't been fencing as long as you have so the finer details escape me. Zen hilts are okay but they can use some filing to get them to fit right by the end user but they are good. You ever use alchem? I am seriously thinking about them. I've been fencing Rapier for about four months now.
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Razor
Senior Forumite
Posts: 1,883
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Post by Razor on Feb 24, 2013 1:03:51 GMT
I have seen them but I have never use one. They look good and I was also thinking about getting one. But I think if I get another taining rapier it's going to be a Darkwood.
I think John P has one or his school has them. If he doesn't post here maybe you can PM him about Alchem?
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Post by Kilted Cossack on Feb 24, 2013 18:07:20 GMT
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Post by StevenJ on Feb 25, 2013 18:54:55 GMT
Well I guess I can always get the Darkwood Armory 19th century Sabre they just came out with. They have pretty good customer service and good products from what I heard.
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Post by John P on Mar 29, 2013 6:44:14 GMT
I have got a chance to try a lot of the rapiers on the market and the only ones I have been happy with is Darkwood.
I have had several hanwie piratical blades. The 37 inch isn't bad but I had a blade snap in the first 6 min of use.
The 42 hanwei practicals are better length wise but the tip is to whippy in my opinion for good historical techniques. Other hanwie lines of rapiers feel nice in the hand but the blades to quickly take a bend.
I was very excited about the alchem blades but the maker was just to unreliable and several month passed his promised delivery. The blades are very durable but the guards are bending and getting loose.
The zen warrior rapiers that I have gotten a chance to play with have handled ok but one of the blades have taken strong bends from little use. I have heard good things about there court swords.
James the just is supposedly going to start making his own blades some day soon.
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Post by TheNewDavout on Mar 29, 2013 18:00:34 GMT
I would second John's recommendation of Darkwood. I love my Darkwood economy; I know people who've had their darkwoods for years, and they're still together and handling well.
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Post by Swordknives on Apr 13, 2013 15:18:43 GMT
Yes with modification. Hanwei uses the same steel and hardining process for sharps and blunt blades. of course ideal would buy a blunt blade but not everyone has the money at the time.
you will need to take the sharp point to a blunt you can do it with a file, hacksaw, or grinder (go very slow keep the blade cool enough to touch or you will ruin the temper.) to make it work. now there are better swords out there that the Hanwei's but fewer at that price point.
other swords to look at would be James the just. Not as pretty as the Darkwoods or Hanwei's but they do good strong work for the price.
Ash whoever is in charge of your club their opinion they may have some good ideas too.
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Post by StevenJ on Sept 3, 2013 4:50:12 GMT
I apologize in advance for reviving an old dead thread and making it rise like a phoenix but I do so for valid reasons. Much has changed since I last posted here. In that time I sold those two Zen Warrior Rapiers to a friend of mine in my local Adrian Empire group and i have bought a Del Tin Cup Hilt and TWO Darkwood Rapiers.
Before I say anything else, James the Just only makes hilts. He uses other make's blades. I just thought that should be mentioned. I've learned a lot in just a few months. I learned I love Darkwood Armory, their customer service is as good as Zen Warrior and better in some ways. Let me tell you a story.
I had bought a Pappenheimer from their in stock page. I fenced with it for a few months. Then one dreadful day, I fought one of our most senior knights. Now this gentleman was at least 6 ft 2 inches tall with a rather not so 'subtle' gut. I lunged at him, bending my type 1 practice blade at about 90 degrees. Sadly the sword took an scurve but hey, I abused the heck out of it with that one lunge! It bent 90 degrees at least half way down the blade. I emailed Darkwood and they were on vacation at the time. So I sent it in to arrive when they would be back in the shop.
I asked for them exchange the blade for a Type 2 practice blade. They did just that and turned it around within a week to week and a half. Since then I bought their two ring economy hilt. Though both haven't been in my possession long, they have both seen their fair share of abuse, especially the pappenheimer, even with the replacement blade. I've loaned both of them out to be used by varying members of our group in fencing matches and they survived. In particular, one individual who is rather infamous for breaking rapiers in our group, has fought with both of them to a fair degree. I personally witnessed this man break a rapier at the point where the tang meets the sword. Granted, it was a pretty **** sword he broke. The point is, it withstood his abuse and I've lent him both my Darkwoods frequently without any serious sets or serious chipping. Minor nicks here and there, about it. I will stand by Darkwood as for now they have proven their worth to me. Now not everyone in my group liked them.
Keep in mind both my blades I am using the type 2 rapier blade which is a fair amount heavier than their type I. I've handed it to several people. Some really like the feel, others tell me it is a total crowbar. I tell you what though, it sure takes beating and handles well. Plus it is stiff as a board in the thrust but flexes safely enough upon impact not to crack any ribs! Wouldn't want to cut at anyone full force with a Darkwood type 2 blade though. That's for sure!
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Post by Lukas MG (chenessfan) on Sept 3, 2013 7:25:31 GMT
Just saw the Hanwei rapier breaking vid... man, what is it with Hanwei training swords? Their feder is also known for breaking. That's really damn dangerous, one HEMA fighter was already run through with a broken blade. Honestly, I'd stay away from Hanwei if the blade you're buying will see hard use in sparring.
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Post by Grubnessul on Sept 3, 2013 9:48:07 GMT
Hanweis are decent for sparring in my experience. Their balance is just not very good and they feel like the blade is much shorter then it actually is. The grip is also to short for my hands. I'd pick my own Arma Bohemia rapier or a Darkwood (let alone a Cervenka rapier) over them any day of the week.
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Post by StevenJ on Sept 3, 2013 15:08:21 GMT
To be fair, a number of guys in our group use Hanwei. My problem with them is that the blades are too whippy but I have not seen a Hanwei break in my group yet. I have seen them flex like a pool noodle on a monthly basis, not break though.
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Post by Rabel Dusk on Sept 4, 2013 0:25:35 GMT
Has anyone used one of A&A's training rapiers? Also, it looks like Albion is finally coming out with their Maestro Marozzo cut and thrust sword. See it on Albion Facebook
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Post by John P on Sept 4, 2013 3:59:36 GMT
I got to handle one of there side swords and it felt nice and it was well balanced.
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