|
Post by kasim18 on Feb 23, 2013 4:46:12 GMT
ok, I took my hanwei practical viking out today to sharpen it for the first time. It still had (and has) the standard stage combat edge. I took the coarsest stone I have access to and I tried to sharpen this thing for a solid hour. The steel has only been reduced the tiniest bit. I know that the steel in this sword is supposed to be tough, but this is ridiculous. do I need to start with a belt sander? if so, what is the absolute cheapest one that will do the job? eriously, I only worked on the tip, and while you can see where it was ground down a little bit I still could pull an Ajax, fall on my sword and come away unharmed. I don't need it to be scary sharp, just sharper than a crowbar
|
|
Sean (Shadowhowler)
VIP Reviewer
Retired Moderator
No matter where you go, there you are.
Posts: 8,828
|
Post by Sean (Shadowhowler) on Feb 23, 2013 4:57:09 GMT
The practicals have THICK edges and were never intended to be sharpened... even with a belt sander that is a lot of work... without one it would be a nightmare. At the end of which, you will have a sharp that was not designed to be one and likely won't be very good. I wouldn't do it.
|
|
|
Post by kasim18 on Feb 23, 2013 5:05:19 GMT
Brenno did it in his review and it turned out well. Obviously compared to him I am beneath notice on the scale of newb to skilled in sword customization, but I think I should be able to handle a simple sharpening. I already know that if done correctly it will be good. I fully intend to finish the project, I have really changed the finish enough so that if I don't it will be quite unattractive. I just really need some advice because everything already here is mostly sharpening with sandpaper by hand, that will literally take me weeks and I just can't. are there any tricks I am missing, something beyond push blade on stone at 30 degrees?
|
|
Sean (Shadowhowler)
VIP Reviewer
Retired Moderator
No matter where you go, there you are.
Posts: 8,828
|
Post by Sean (Shadowhowler) on Feb 23, 2013 5:14:56 GMT
Well, if you don't have a belt sander and you are determined to go threw with it... a mill file will get some of the heavy steel removal done much faster then a stone or paper.
|
|
|
Post by William Swiger on Feb 23, 2013 5:38:23 GMT
I thought about doing the same thing a few years ago but sharpened a couple DSA swords and it sucked the life out of me. Kind of gave up on even trying the practical viking.
Good luck and it can be done but not sure without belt sanding the hell out of it.
|
|
|
Post by Lonely Wolf Forge on Feb 23, 2013 6:17:53 GMT
ditch the stone and get yourself a large mill file. once you get an edge established then you can go back to the stone or papers
|
|
George
Member
Banned
Posts: 1,899
|
Post by George on Feb 23, 2013 11:00:18 GMT
Yeh i second a metal file (dont know what you yanks call a 'mill file'). Try and get a medium one if possible and take the majority off.
|
|
|
Post by aussie-rabbit on Feb 23, 2013 13:34:41 GMT
Since the sword is already hardened and tempered files will tend to either slide off or "tear" the edge, if you get some 2 inch wide cloth backed strip, (same as used in belt sanders) in either 220 grit or 360 grit and a long flat stick - glue the cloth backed strip to the stick and use it in the same way you use a file you may have better luck.
|
|
|
Post by Stromlo_Swords_USA on Feb 24, 2013 1:22:07 GMT
Use a belt sander or abandon hope. I have one of these: www.harborfreight.com/1-inch-x-3 ... -2485.html If you want high polish you can get super high grit belts that fit it from that place in canada, i'll think of it later. A week or so ago a friend brought an old blunt off me and I said he could sharper on the sander. He turned this blunt rapier into a freckin insane needle. We did a DSA at the same time, only took 2-3 beers (about an hour) and they were both quite useable and tested out. I start off with a low grit belt and hold it in my hand, if the blade gets toward too hot to hold, you need to let it cool off. Being lazy I wait till 5-6 swords need doing, and cycle through them so they can cool while I start the next. Tom K has a brilliant instructional video on the forum some place, follow that!
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Feb 24, 2013 1:32:34 GMT
That belt sander is a 120V US model, from what I know they don't do a 240V version, how do you use it downunder in Aus?
|
|
|
Post by Stromlo_Swords_USA on Feb 24, 2013 1:51:46 GMT
Transformer from tortech like this: tortech.com.au/category/595/?PHP ... e9101a42d4 I lived in the states for a bit, so needed to get one to have my PS3 and drill and sander etc run. For those stateside, hard to beat for $40! Mine still goes well after a couple years, just remove the tray so you can slack belt sharpen. Having to unplug everything is part of the reason I sharpen everything at once when I get to it...
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Feb 24, 2013 2:47:11 GMT
Thanks! Much appreciated. +1 from me!
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Feb 24, 2013 3:34:03 GMT
Thanks! Much appreciated. +1 from me!
|
|
|
Post by 14thforsaken on Feb 24, 2013 23:10:30 GMT
It can be done, you are just going to have to be very patient. I'd recommend using a set of progressively finer metal files, then stones and then oiled sandpaper of increasing fineness. It's now I have sharpened some very thick dull blades in the past.
Start with a relatively coarse metal file and use a smooth motion down the blade. I normally would make 50 passes, then work the other side of that edge for 50 strokes, then the other edge 50 strokes on each side and continue that pattern until I removed a fair amount of material. Switching sides after a set number of strokes will help prevent taking too much material from one side of the edge than the other. Also, if you put too much pressure in your strokes and do too many at a time, heat build up from friction can be an issue. It's time consuming but if you can get into a rhythm and it can actually become relaxing, something to do with the sound and repetitive motion. If you're lucky it can become muscle memory pretty fast and you can watch tv or something else while doing this.
If for some reason you are having trouble getting bite into the blade, try putting some machine oil on the file, it seems to help me get a better bite into the blade.
Once you have removed a decent amount of material (you really don't want to remove too much too soon as you will be removing more as you refine the edge) switch to a finer file and repeat the process. Keep moving up in fineness through files, stones and lastly sanding blocks. When using the sanding blocks, I use some machine oil on them to make them last longer.
Eventually, you should be able to get a decent edge. The main keys I have found are:
- Smooth consist strokes in the same direction - Try to find a consistent rhythm, it makes it much easier and allows you to watch TV or something else while doing this. That's a good thing as it can take a lot of time - Maintain the same angle on your strokes so you can control the edge geometry - Rotate the Blade after a set number of strokes so you don't take more material off of one side than another - Monitor how much material you are removing. You can always go back to a lower grit if you need to remove more but once you remove meat from the blade, its gone forever - Slowly move up in fineness, take your time and be safe - Remember you have all the time in the world....don't rush - Consider practicing on a cheap blade you don't care about. Its a good skill to learn and can actually be rewarding - You can do it and there is nothing like being to say you sharpen and re-profile your own blades to your personal tastes. I do this for all of my blades except high end customs and some katanas. I haven't mastered finger stone polishing yet but its something I plan to learn at some point. If you have other questions or need help, feel free to PM me. I do this type of stuff all the time on everything from knives to swords to axes to anything with an edge. If you are running into a problem, I've probably had the same one at some point and worked through it. Good luck and don't hesitate to ask me for help if necessary, I actually enjoy teaching people how to sharpen blades the old way. Its a good skill to have and one that my great-grandfather taught my grandfather who taught my father who taught me and that I'll teach my son when he's old enough. Finally it can actually be relaxing and allow you to enter a almost meditative/trance state which is relaxing and mentally refreshing.
If nothing else, if the zombie apocalypse comes and you are out in the middle of nowhere, its easy to find and abrasive stone; finding a belt sander and an electrical outlet, not so much.
|
|
|
Post by lamebmx on Feb 25, 2013 2:55:37 GMT
I had 20 to 40 hours in reprofiling the edge of my tenchi on stones. Time does kind of blur when you have the tunes goin. Have patience, but dont think a good job will happen in a few hours on a saturday without the help of water cooled power tools....
|
|
|
Post by GUEST on Feb 25, 2013 7:33:54 GMT
Some of you guy must really be fast with hand held sander and files to cause heat build up to worry about. I've got to sand paper hot a few times but ever the steel.
|
|
|
Post by Brendan Olszowy on Feb 27, 2013 13:22:40 GMT
Hey Bro. My early "obsession period" work; circa 2006. One of my first swords. I spent long long hours (and hours) sharpening my Hanwei Practical Viking and Hand and half with my old 300w gutless bench grinder to which I'd hooked up a water dripper and a job rest table. I'm talking about 5 hours to do the Viking. The hand and half was first though. I started with files. Doing a secondary bevel on half of one edge took hours. I seem to remember an estimate of 8 hours messing about before I had a full primary grind on that sword. Including the filing work and then progressing to the wet bench grinder. You've got to give it to hanwei that their steel it hard. Not necessarily tough or well made perhaps, I don't know. But certainly much harder than the windlasses I sharpened. Now I would suggest long flowing smooth strokes on a belt grinder - with as large of a contact wheel as possible, running up the wheel in line with the belt (40 grit). Thats what I do. Long strokes, keep it moving at ALL times. Once you get the edge to 0.5mm then smooth off the grit marks with a 240 grit belt, then move to files and hand tools. Ideally you'd be taking meat off most of the bevel to creat a long gentle lenticular bevel cross section. As such you'll want to drawfile the flat of the blade (second cut mill file, tang in your right hand, pressure only on push strokes, bang out the scrawl) to smooth it off and remove the grit marks. While you're drawfiling take the edge down to almost zero. Then only sandpaper on a cork block, in hand. 150g 3M Frecut paper is the best for cutting the blade back. Then go 240g and you'll be fine. You don't want to try polish it it'll make the rest of the blade look worse. It's good apprenticeship work, if you want to make blades. Trust me BTW at least 50 (or many more) of the blades on my site were made using a $60 3" x 21" hand held belt sander, mounted contact wheel up (bottom up on an angle) in a vice. Though if you can get one of those bench grinder mounted belt sander kits on a 1+hp bench grinder it would be better for this job. But not the fine fiddly crafting jobs on guards and pommels. Good if you can acquire both. Better if you can build a full 72" x 2" jobby. Cost you a grand or so. Well worth it.
|
|
|
Post by Lonely Wolf Forge on Feb 27, 2013 13:31:14 GMT
ive since found out its way easier to make my own blade and sharpen it than to try to sharpen somebody elses crappy blade that already has bad geometry
|
|
|
Post by kasim18 on Mar 20, 2013 14:43:08 GMT
sorry I haven't responded, school keeps me busy. I really appreciate all the great advice and offers for help. I guess I will need to wait until I have a break from school to work on it. I will be looking for a used belt sander. wish me luck!
|
|