Cold Steel 1860 Heavy Cavalry Saber

I especially enjoyed the part of your review where you point out that your sword may be battle ready, but if you aren't in condition to wield it then you are not.

Before gunpowder professional soldiers understood that. I believe everyone knows that the modern Marathon recalls a run by an Athenian after the battle of Marathon. The Athenians had just defeated the Persians, and a runner named Phidippides (the spelling varies) ran the 26 miles back to Athens to deliver the word. Then he died shortly afterwards of exhaustion. It's commonly believed that it was that 26 mile run that killed him, so now a 26 mile marathon is supposedly a test of extreme endurance.

That isn't the case at all. What most people don't know is that just prior to the battle he had run at least 280 miles in two days to Sparta and back to summon help prior to the battle, then marched out in full bronze panoply (grieves, cuirrais, helment, spear, shield, and sword) those same 26 miles with the Athenian army to meet the Persians, fought all morning after advancing over a mile in full gear weighing over 70 pounds at the quick step to make contact before making his Marathon run back to Athens. That is endurance, and its no wonder he was exhausted.

The Romans were the same way. They trained with weighted weapons that were twice as heavy as the real ones and were fanatics about fitness, so their legionairies could vault walls and scramble up battlements in full armor as if they were wearing shorts and a t-shirt. One of the reasons they were confident about going into battle despite being vastly outnumbered is that in their experience the "barbarians" were no where near as fit and would tire easily.

Doing anything in full medieval armor is bound to be difficult. But in Europe knights prided themselves on being able to vault onto the backs of their horses while wearing it (getting back aboard the horse unaided being a vital skill if they were unhorsed in battle). In Japan the bushi could swim across rivers or in the ocean while wearing it. (That's making a come back as a traditional martial art: japandailypress.com/swimming-in- ... ol-0514627 ). When modern Europeans entered Japan in the 19th century they couldn't even fully draw a Japanese longbow. But Japanese warriors could shoot them apparently effortlessly. One warrior named Wada Daihachi is recorded, being motivated by some spiritual purpose that's beyond me, having unerringly hit a target 128 yards away in the "Hall of the 33 pillar spans" in Kyoto 8,133 times from sunset to senset one day in 1686.

Not to draw any comparison between me and the warriors of old, but when I went through AOCS we were issued and had to haul around a decomm'd M1 Garand. Not a light rifle. Early on the Marine DIs took us on a rifle run; 3 miles in deep sand along the beach with that thing at port arms. As a graduation exercise they took us on another such rifle run. It's amazing how much weight that Garand had lost.

Point being, you're exactly right. If you find your weapon too heavy, it usually isn't the weapon's fault.

Thanks for the response and comment above!

Well I don't really care what the military say about their reason of "changing" the sabers specs. But for me, I really do admire how people are so conditioned to battle as compare today's people who claim to do martial arts and can't even weld a 3lb Chinese sword. That's a big problem because people who are now doing martial arts, specially Chinese kungfu, are very under-conditioned, and they don't think that is a PROBLEM. I felt the pain and I know it is a long term disaster.

As a kungfu guy, I grew up seeing so many so called masters in kungfu like that, they don't even have the power I do, while I am a "student" back then. Damn, how can you even be a master when you are so not qualified to be one?

Recently, I bought a few weapons from other culture to learn something new and I found that MANY cultures still have a lot of good stuff now, like how the euro guys still have associations that teach you how to dress and gear up in medival armor and fight like a man. You know.. chain mail, armor, all steel and heavy stuff.. well yeah, they all kept their culture and the art of "battle" in the old way. For Chinese? It's all gone. None. Absolutely NONE. The Chinese martial arts nowadays are washed and brainwashed by the stupid republic, who wash away our own culture and everything that is left are all performance based, and even those who CLAIM to be able to fight can't even beat down a MMA guy because they lack the training that is required to USE the techniques in a real fight.

Just opening my mind more and more.. and yes, I used to be not fitting in the group of Chinese martial art guys because I don't like the norm's way. I train with heavy weapons, heavy vest, and all that stuff that the CMA guys are against. But so what? I do kungfu for myself, and I find these weapons are very fun and very eye opening! Especially this heavy saber really entertained me a lot!

By the way, light or heavy saber isn't a problem for me, as a collector, I would like to have them BOTH to appreciate them in different ways! haha!

"As a kungfu guy, I grew up seeing so many so called masters in kungfu like that, they don't even have the power I do, while I am a "student" back then. Damn, how can you even be a master when you are so not qualified to be one?"

I know exactly what you mean. I attempted to continue my study of Aikido after returning from Japan, but every Dojo was just an elaborate dance studio. You don't really learn anything when the uke wants to be thrown, and knows how to make it look good. What's the point?

Mr. Dave Kelly, the last thing I want to do is pick a fight. I largely keep coming back to this forum because of you.

"But weapon form and function is another matter. Training up to an inappropriate weapon doesn't make for a best solution."

I would never suggest otherwise. I was just pointing out that "Ooh, it's heavy" isn't in and of itself a valid criticism. Please note I used the M1 Garand as an example. Which is not a bad thing to have when things fall apart.

Hey, liked the review.

I recently bought this sword as well, and I do think it is pretty awesome.
Honestly, although it is heavy, I had kind of expected it to be heavier. I guess that could be attributed to the fact that I have handled very few swords. So my completely inexperienced hands were somewhat pleasantly surprised.

Actually, after much reading and debating over different swords, I finally decided on this sword for a number of reasons. (my first Real sword btw. i'm kind of more of a gun guy)
I won't go through all the pros and cons of my list, but one very big deciding factor was that I became sold with the idea of the French light cav M1822. This was a direct result of reading Dave's comparisons and reviews on the sabers.
If 2 swords look almost completely identical, which one do you choose? Well obviously the one that handles better, the M1822 (not that I would know from personal experience, just from what I've read.)
The problem arose when I went to look for one, only to find out that they are not exactly readily available as the 1860s/1840s are. So, my decision came to the Cold Steel.

Unfortunately, my experience with Kult of Athena has been unpleasant. And I may have to end up sending this saber back AGAIN. It arrived in unacceptable condition the first time, 2 weeks ago. I sent it back and they said they'd send me a new one. Today, the 'new' one came. They didn't send me a new scabbard, and they only HALF fixed the problem with it.
As for the saber itself, I don't know if it is a different one from the first time. But This one has dings and marks all over the hand guard, as if someone was playing around/sparring with it before they shipped it.

I am extremely disappointed with my experience with KoA.
After reading so many peoples' good reviews of them, I expected more

Hahaha~ I do have a temple too, huge space there, but i enjoy practicing at home everyday while I am not at the temple, so that is where I practice the most -- in PJs, hahahaha! The real man practice their blades in PJs! LOL!



Man I am sorry to hear about your experience with KandA, honestly I don't buy from there because their shipping policy is kind of scary and slow, so I avoid buying there. I bought from Warrior and Wonder and also WildBill, both are great and reliable. If you ever went to Smoky Mountain Knives.. beware, these people sell you sword 2nds as first and they even send butterfly swords WITHOUT the sheath and call that "original", I am like.. what the heck? So.. avoid. I got my jade lion sword there too and end up having a defected guard (loose) which I have to fix myself with JB weld. PAINFUL experience with SMK. AVOID!

Hope you like your sword more when it is 100% completely in good condition and you can chop stuff without scared of a defected blade.

I think CS's idea of doing swords second is kind of bad when these evil vendors are out there buying these crap versions and sell them as real deal first original genuine. CS should make a more obvious marking on the swords second and not let these flow out as FIRST!

I apologize for the blatant hijacking of the thread; Dave, don't feel like you have to answer that. I appreciate your critique of the 1840 US heavy cavalry saber. And of the 1860 that replaced it. I own two Windlass replicas of the latter, one officer and one enlisted, largely because you observed that the original swords were no great shakes and consequently the Windlass versions were representative of the breed.

I do admit that your reviews of US cavalry sabers and where and how they fell short of the French versions has fed my appetite to own a decent original French sword.

"Blade has a lot of wear. Nothing major; but a lot of dings

La saberage.

I imagine opening all those champagne bottles beats up a sword like nobody's business. Especially if you do so while loaded.

I may go ahead and get it after I ask the seller about the points you raised. I seem to recall you thought $300-$400 was a fair price for a decent French M1845. But that was a couple of years ago if memory serves, and after quantitative easing 1, 2, 3, and then to infinity and beyond the dollar just doesn't buy what it used to.

Good advice. In any case I am decidedly ambivalent about that sword. As you observed, it's hard to tell what its exact condition is from those pictures. But then you don't have to be a sword connoisseur to notice that.