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Post by Derzis on Nov 7, 2016 13:11:54 GMT
Interesting opinions, but I see survival different. Something happened and you have to survive with your knowledge and the tools you have on you daily. A SAK with a saw (camper or Hunter XT depends on the day) and a BiC are enough for me.
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Post by AndiTheBarvarian on Nov 7, 2016 13:36:11 GMT
For survival in gernany the IBAN is more important than the BIC ! The OP was about survival tools usable as weapons.
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Post by Derzis on Nov 7, 2016 13:50:10 GMT
To me, however, the ultimate survivalists in this part of the world were the American Indians, even though to be truthful, they didn't survive. You are mixing two different things. They were masters of survival, but they couldn't survive against greedy white skinned invaders.
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Post by Derzis on Nov 7, 2016 13:51:10 GMT
For survival in gernany the IBAN is more important than the BIC ! :) The OP was about survival tools usable as weapons. Shows how little actually you know about survival. BiC means fire. With fire you can harden a pointy stick and make it decent spear or arrows if you want weapons. But before thinking to fight someone in a survival situation, I want to keep my body warm, boil water or keep the bugs and whatever four legged predator at bay during the night. Or signal to the rescue team my position. It goes down to what survival really means: go out in the woods with your 30kg of gear and test the tools bought online or something happened and you just have to manage to live another day.
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Post by MOK on Nov 7, 2016 14:22:33 GMT
Honestly, I'd rather have some more reliable means of making fire than a disposable lighter. As a backup, sure, they're light enough you can carry a couple just in case, but I wouldn't want to rely on them.
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Post by Derzis on Nov 7, 2016 14:38:22 GMT
Honestly, I'd rather have some more reliable means of making fire than a disposable lighter. As a backup, sure, they're light enough you can carry a couple just in case, but I wouldn't want to rely on them. Like what? Just curious. And you have them on you daily?
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Post by bluetrain on Nov 7, 2016 14:57:02 GMT
Survival doesn't mean having the right things in order to survive. It means being able to do without them.
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Post by Derzis on Nov 7, 2016 15:23:30 GMT
Survival doesn't mean having the right things in order to survive. It means being able to do without them. True, but it also means to use whatever is on you. I don't have a SAK or BiC on me for survival purpose, I use them daily. But I chose 2 SAK models that give me options blades wise. The brain / knowledge is what will make it or break it at the end. But to talk based on topic, in the woods I have an old Plumb hatchet, a 6" blade knife, SAK, my takedown bow, arrows, field points 2 broad heads a wool blanket and some personal hygiene stuff and emergency kit just because I like to shoot stumps when out. Is too much? Yes, but who cares about real surviving at the end.
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Post by AndiTheBarvarian on Nov 7, 2016 15:48:14 GMT
Smokers seem to have a long term survival advantage!
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Post by bluetrain on Nov 7, 2016 16:58:32 GMT
I'm not saying there's anything wrong with having a so-called survival outfit. I myself carry three or four knives with me everyday at work, which is just about the only place away from home I go anymore. If I go anywhere else, I take the same stuff. I don't take most of it if I travel by air, though.
I believe your personal outfit has to be tailored around your specific needs, your environment, the scenario you are planning everything around as well as more practical considerations like cost and how much you can actually take along. For instance, in most parts of the country a machete is not really necessary and in many places, neither is an axe or hatchet. Where I live a machete is a handy tool around the house but not essential as a survival tool. An axe or hand axe is more useful, although probably not necessary. Frankly I have trouble envisioning a good, realistic survival scenario but I don't live on the prairie of the Midwest, the deserts of the southeast, the swamps of the south or in the north woods. I live in a settled and developed area and I would have to go about 75 miles to find deep woods and even they aren't that deep; only about five miles wide. The countryside between here and there is rolling farmland cut up into fields usually bordered by trees.
A realistic scenario for me would be the necessity for me to reach home on foot, which is at most a twenty-mile walk, which is a long day's hike. If there were a revolution for some unforeseen reason, I could do the trip at night. So far, however, the only thing that would have ever required such a tramp would be snow and that happens every year and in most cases I just stay home. Once, however, it started snowing mid-morning and even though I left by noon, it was after five o'clock in the afternoon before I got home and that was by car.
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Post by MOK on Nov 7, 2016 17:12:12 GMT
Honestly, I'd rather have some more reliable means of making fire than a disposable lighter. As a backup, sure, they're light enough you can carry a couple just in case, but I wouldn't want to rely on them. Like what? Just curious. And you have them on you daily? I do keep a flint and steel on me in the woods. I don't smoke, though, so don't need anything when just walking about town (and if I do happen to, I can just stop at almost any store or kiosk to buy a box of matches). PS. When I was in the army (just the mandatory six months, long range recon) the smokers all had lighters at the start. By the end of it they had all taken to using matches simply because it gets so cold up here in the winter, more often than not the lighters just wouldn't work. The plastic cracks in the cold, the metal parts get brittle and break, the pipes get clogged and/or frozen, they run out of gas... they just weren't worth the hassle. There are proper heavy duty stormproof gas lighters, of course, but they're expensive, more bulky and still rely on a relatively quickly depleting supply of flammable gas.
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Zen_Hydra
Moderator
Born with a heart full of neutrality
Posts: 2,632
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Post by Zen_Hydra on Nov 7, 2016 17:13:57 GMT
Smokers seem to have a long term survival advantage! They have a short-term survival advantage. A butane lighter won't last long with regular use, and emphysema and/or cancer usually put an abrupt end to long-term anything.
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Post by bluetrain on Nov 7, 2016 17:47:33 GMT
Although I rely on matches rather than lighters, it would seem likely that if you simply carried them in your pocket, any problem with the cold would be avoided. It would be a good idea to do that with anything that uses batteries, too, that is, to carry them inside your clothing. Some battery-operated instruments the army uses (or used to use) had a long electrical cord so you could put the battery inside your outer garments. I've even had a battery operated wristwatch stop running because I took it off on an overnight trip and put it in the corner of the tent rather than keeping it on my wrist.
Old-time guide lists for prospectors and the like always list matches--kitchen matches, too. A few boxes will do for a long time. When people actually used wood and coal for heat and cooking, they would go to great lengths to avoid trying to start a fire with anything but matches, even to the extent of "borrowing fire" from a neighbor, using a bed warmer.
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Post by Derzis on Nov 7, 2016 18:40:13 GMT
Like what? Just curious. And you have them on you daily? I do keep a flint and steel on me in the woods. I don't smoke, though, so don't need anything when just walking about town (and if I do happen to, I can just stop at almost any store or kiosk to buy a box of matches). PS. When I was in the army (just the mandatory six months, long range recon) the smokers all had lighters at the start. By the end of it they had all taken to using matches simply because it gets so cold up here in the winter, more often than not the lighters just wouldn't work. The plastic cracks in the cold, the metal parts get brittle and break, the pipes get clogged and/or frozen, they run out of gas... they just weren't worth the hassle. There are proper heavy duty stormproof gas lighters, of course, but they're expensive, more bulky and still rely on a relatively quickly depleting supply of flammable gas. The lighter is never for long term as a lot think, it is a short term convenience, something that counts in first day the most. Especially from psychological point of view. Flint and steel without charred cloth are a semprini to use sometimes, but are great if you know how to use them. As any other way of making fire. That's why I said knowledge prevails tools and any insignificant object like a BiC has its place in the scheme. PS I don't think we will ever need to survive more than a couple of days in a scenario. If you need more, you did something very wrong or the world broke loose. And I am not Apocalypse believer.
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Post by howler on Nov 7, 2016 19:20:27 GMT
To me, however, the ultimate survivalists in this part of the world were the American Indians, even though to be truthful, they didn't survive. You are mixing two different things. They were masters of survival, but they couldn't survive against greedy white skinned invaders. Greedy white skinned invaders? All cultures were equally greedy and invading. If your a prehistoric, stone age culture...you lose. Native Americans slaughtered and enslaved each other as well, and gave as good as they got. Also, they had no concept of land ownership. The past was indeed bloody, barbaric, and FAR less enlightened than it is today.
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Post by howler on Nov 7, 2016 19:31:20 GMT
Survival doesn't mean having the right things in order to survive. It means being able to do without them. True, but it also means to use whatever is on you. I don't have a SAK or BiC on me for survival purpose, I use them daily. But I chose 2 SAK models that give me options blades wise. The brain / knowledge is what will make it or break it at the end. But to talk based on topic, in the woods I have an old Plumb hatchet, a 6" blade knife, SAK, my takedown bow, arrows, field points 2 broad heads a wool blanket and some personal hygiene stuff and emergency kit just because I like to shoot stumps when out. Is too much? Yes, but who cares about real surviving at the end. Plumb hatchet, 6" blade knife, SAK, and (particularly) takedown bow, is smart. It is never only one thing, but a (redundant is best) system and combination of tools that also complement each other. Saws are great, but they break, so you bring a more durable large bladed tool for chopping.
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Post by bluetrain on Nov 7, 2016 19:33:56 GMT
There have been power outages mostly caused by weather events lasting for several days in a few places now and then over the past couple of decades. In fact, weather--bad weather, that is--probably causes more emergency situations than anything else. Usually they aren't the stuff of novels but they happen over and over again and usually in the same places. Heavy snowstorms, hurricanes, tornados and river flooding. That just about covers it.
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Post by howler on Nov 7, 2016 19:53:45 GMT
There have been power outages mostly caused by weather events lasting for several days in a few places now and then over the past couple of decades. In fact, weather--bad weather, that is--probably causes more emergency situations than anything else. Usually they aren't the stuff of novels but they happen over and over again and usually in the same places. Heavy snowstorms, hurricanes, tornados and river flooding. That just about covers it. Multiple fire sources are always smart, but good clothing, shoes are clearly the number one item when in the woods. In any case, looking at answering the question of this thread, you pick the combination of blades that best fit your environment. The colder, darker, wetter the woods (big trees, ice, snow), the bigger the axe (with 30" bow saw and extra blade). In ANY situation, no reason not to have a smaller fixed blade (with SAK or multi-tool in pocket). Lots of areas, as others have mentioned, a sturdy fixed blade or small machete would be more than enough, paired with that small fixed blade and SAK.
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Post by Derzis on Nov 7, 2016 22:19:24 GMT
You are mixing two different things. They were masters of survival, but they couldn't survive against greedy white skinned invaders. Greedy white skinned invaders? All cultures were equally greedy and invading. If your a prehistoric, stone age culture...you lose. Native Americans slaughtered and enslaved each other as well, and gave as good as they got. Also, they had no concept of land ownership. The past was indeed bloody, barbaric, and FAR less enlightened than it is today. Greedy etc was to emphasis the fact that clash between 2worlds is not a measure of survival in nature for any of them. It happened. Too strong words? Maybe, but this was the way of those times.
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Post by howler on Nov 7, 2016 23:17:15 GMT
Greedy white skinned invaders? All cultures were equally greedy and invading. If your a prehistoric, stone age culture...you lose. Native Americans slaughtered and enslaved each other as well, and gave as good as they got. Also, they had no concept of land ownership. The past was indeed bloody, barbaric, and FAR less enlightened than it is today. Greedy etc was to emphasis the fact that clash between 2worlds is not a measure of survival in nature for any of them. It happened. Too strong words? Maybe, but this was the way of those times. I agree with you on all of this. Viewed through our enlightened modern lens, the past was a nightmare.
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