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Post by tone702 on Nov 4, 2012 21:37:28 GMT
Hey guys, this is my first thread and post I think. (i've been on here for a couple months picking pplz brains via PM's)
Anywho, I wondered what you thought would be more effective for a survival/self defense situation. For the purpose of my minimalism, if you wanted to pack something lightly, would you rather carry a short sword/machete vs. bowie knife (or other big knife like a kabar type knife) and tomahawk combo.
In a world like Revolution where most people carry a sword of some type, which would you feel would be overall more practical to carry assuming you were well trained in that weapon/weapons.
I thought a machete would be useful in that cutting down shrubs and vines and that such. Gives reach over the knife and tomahawk combo. And can do some chopping in a pinch. The downside I would think, is that it's your only melee weapon, can get beat up if you had too do chopping.
The knife and tomahawk combo would be useful for camping type things, such as filleting kills, chopping and woodwork. For self defense it would be good for sneak attack and guerilla fighting. Out in the open however, up against a sword, you lack reach and although it would be good for woodwork, cutting vines and shrubs and vegetation might be difficult.
I know there are more pros and cons to both, but what would you carry in this situation?
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Post by Adrian Jordan on Nov 4, 2012 21:43:23 GMT
I went for the tomahawk/big knife combo. It seems to me that you'd get more variety out of the two, and have less upkeep.
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Post by Kumdoalan on Nov 5, 2012 2:42:47 GMT
the best survival knife is one that is small enough to allow you to do very delicate cutting. A lot of the things you will do with the knife in a true survival situation will be where you are cutting small fibers to make rope, or skinning small game like rabbits or squirrels etc or building a rain proof shelter..
It would also have to be light enough to always be on your person so that its there when you need it.
I have always felt that the best true survival knife would be a Leatherman.
Now if there was chance that you might need to take the knife into combat, then you would need a bigger knife. A bigger knife always gives the owner more confidence. You would need the combat knife to have a nice guard on it...and it should have a type of steel that will not snap or crack under hard stress.
a bowie knife is for hanging on a wall, , they are movie knives that dont really work all the good in the real life woods.
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Sam H
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Post by Sam H on Nov 5, 2012 3:08:27 GMT
Welcome to the forum!
That being said I will also say that I don't much like the options you have in your poll.
I'd vote to take a mid sized fixed blade knife and a machete into most of the wilderness places I'd go into - in fact that's what I regularly do whether its hunting, camping or just hiking. I also almost always have a hatchet strapped to my pack too.
My knife is for finer things, skinning and gutting, shaving wood, cutting cord etc. The machete is for brush clearing and even cutting down smaller saplings. The hatchet is for cutting tasks that the machete is not capable of doing.
Combat knives are a completely different type of knife in my mind and aren't necessarily survival knives.
Bowies are not just for hanging on walls and not just movie knives. They actually DO work well in real live in the woods and now and then I do strap on a bowie. The key here though is to get a well made one and not the cheap ones you can order out of BudK or buy for $20 at Wal-Mart. The main drawback to a GOOD bowie is that they'll set you back as much as a katana or a long sword.
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Post by tone702 on Nov 10, 2012 1:09:21 GMT
Well, the point of the post was not about what YOU would prefer or rather have. It's about being in a sucky situation and working with what you got. Of course having a gun and a smaller knife for quartering meat would be ideal, but this is not an ideal situation.
I think they both have pros and cons, but I like the tomahawk and big knife combo slightly better.
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Post by ineffableone on Nov 10, 2012 3:01:27 GMT
While I voted hawk and big knife, I would rather opt for a 24" axe and small to medium knife. These are more practical tools then hawk and large knife. With knives, the more commonly used size is just 3-4" not the large 7-9" knives. While the big knives look cool and seem impressive, for typical use a smaller blade is more practical. Of course I don't limit myself to just two tools though. My INCH (I'm Never Coming Home) pack has my Wetterlings Forester's Fine axe, my Kissaki Moroha katana, a short ninjato/machete, my Becker BK2, my cold steel true flight thrower, my SOG power assist and Gerber 600 series multitools, a few different swiss army knives, and a couple different folders. Not to mention a couple different saws. I have a few different blade options. I also have plenty of others I would leave behind, or possibly pack into a vehicle in a bug out situation. I would say though a decent axe, a machete/large knife, and a medium to small knife is the best way to go. However you need a smaller practical use blade along with axe and large blade. If you want to, then look at the Nessmuck trio. An axe, medium knife, and a small knife. Which is a classic example of wilderness bladed tools from the famous wilderness man Nessmuck
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Post by chrisperoni on Nov 10, 2012 3:08:45 GMT
y'know- posts are group efforts and you can't really keep people on just a small specific aspect - your original request can and is being discussed but to expect no one to comment with their own ideas is counterintuitive to the nature of a forum, or a discussion in general.
I chose the tomahawk and big knife since to me a big knife, or a machete, or a short sword all are kind of the same thing (or at least can be construed to be similar etc.) and the definition of the three while different, can blend together considering aspects such as length and design. So by choosing the knife/axe combo I end up with a better variety of task specific tools.
Having said that I would prefer to take a big knife, small knife (folder is fine for me), and a hatchet. As mentioned above quality of material would be paramount to quantity. I'd pick one quality item of any of my three preferences, vs. having all three but of poor quality. To me however name brand is not a hard and fast factor in this respect. Ideally a good name brand is a mark of quality, but practically speaking it's often just a mark of good market penetration by a manufacturer. So to me if my small knife is no name but I know from using it (maybe even testing to destruction another of the same to be sure) that it does the job, then I'm good. (oh, and just to reiterate what was also said above- leatherman is the right kind of brand name- the company has done a great job of proving you can trust their name. Conversely a name like Gerber is (imho) the bad kind of name brand-ing.
edit/add: as I wrote ineffableone did some good writing of his own. and I see a pic of just the trio type I'd prefer. Well played sir! ineffableone - it's good to know these kinds of choices have found their way into my subconscious from all the survival reading I do lol.
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Post by frzburn on Nov 10, 2012 3:45:51 GMT
Listen to Kumdoalan. The only good survival tool/knife is the one you will carry at all time. Because, usually, if you find yourself in a survival situation it will be uncalled for and unexpected, so the only blade you'll have is the one in your pockets.
For that purpose, I prefer a small fixed blade, from 3 to 4 inches. But then again, even at this length a fixed blade isn't the kind of thing you tend to keep in your pockets 24/7, so a good folder is probably the best choice.
Going in the woods, you pack some stuff and can put a larger blade and a 'hawk in a backpack, but the only thing you know you'll have for sure when something bad happens is the one you have in your pockets.
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Post by ineffableone on Nov 10, 2012 3:54:01 GMT
Oh it should be pointed out, some regions axe is more of a preference than machete, but others you really want a machete more than an axe. So axe vs machete, is very region dependent. Both have their places. @ Chrisperoni, that is the Nessmuck trio, a very well known Bushcrafter combo. Made famous by from www.cartercrafts.com/nessmuk.htmTechnically it is 5 different blades in a 3 tool carry. 2 blades on the folder, 2 different ground blades on the hatchet, and one on the fixed blade. While Nessmuck did not invent the fixed blade shown, his name became attached to that style and is is now generally considered a Nessmuck style blade. It is mainly a skinner and used for skinning and processing game exclusively. All other uses for blades were used on the folder or axe.
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Talon
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Post by Talon on Nov 10, 2012 6:27:53 GMT
Out of the two options for my location a tomahawk and large knife is better,but not ideal.While i dont (yet) own a good tomahawk from what i've researched they dont really make good survival/wilderness tools,they make for an excellent weapon but the blade doesn't have enough wedge for splitting tasks,when i get my hawk i'll take it out in the woods and try it.A medium sized well made axe is a much better choice (though the hawk wins hands down on cool points) A bowie knife can make for a very good survival tool and i use mine in the woods a lot(a big bowie compares favourably with a kukri) i've tried using a machete but for uk woods they dont make a lot of sense(i'll make an exception for the condor golok) What i've so far found ideal is a british army kukri combined with either a locking folder (buck 112) or even better a 4 to 5 inch fixed blade . The kukri can be used for chopping ,battoning,splitting,digging and is a very capable weapon,the smaller blade is used for more intricate work. As much as i love my swords i find them useless as a survival tool,they're weapons pure and simple.As has already been said it all depends on location,what works for me wouldn't work in a jungle enviorement,and if it boiled down to what i carry i would have to make do with my buck 110 as that is what's always on me atm
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Post by Lukas MG (chenessfan) on Nov 10, 2012 10:43:09 GMT
I voted tomahawk and big knife, simple because it's closer to what I'm really taking with me when hiking: a hatchet and a medium sized fixed knife. As Talon said, tomahawks are great weapons but poor survival tools compared to a quality hatchet. Machetes are not suited to northern Europe, the axe has always been the woodmen's companion here. I feel with knife and hatchet I'm prepared for pretty much any work I need to do in the bush and they also make a decent weapon system. However, if I knew I was going to have to fight (true apocalypse scenario), I'm taking my bastard sword with me, too. It's very light for a sword its size and handy enough to carry strapped to your pack. Of course, I would also have a range weapon, my crossbow and probably a slingshot as well.
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Post by bigpete on Dec 23, 2012 3:48:41 GMT
I'd go with the machete/short sword option,in fact I already do that anyway.I've done a fair bit of testing with hawks vs machetes and I must confess I find my Magnum Kukri machete to be way up there for overall usefulness while out in the field.I've dug with it,slashed brush,cut through 6" branches with,dismembered a deer with it and it fits in well with my Kali training.I will confess that there are some things a hachet or hawk maybe better at (splitting wood and throwing),and that I would take other blades in a perfect scenario,but if I had the choice of only one a machete would be it
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Post by mlpfan on Dec 27, 2012 16:25:52 GMT
I would go for a kukri and tomahawk,
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Post by howler on Aug 12, 2016 8:52:08 GMT
I voted tomahawk and big knife, simple because it's closer to what I'm really taking with me when hiking: a hatchet and a medium sized fixed knife. As Talon said, tomahawks are great weapons but poor survival tools compared to a quality hatchet. Machetes are not suited to northern Europe, the axe has always been the woodmen's companion here. I feel with knife and hatchet I'm prepared for pretty much any work I need to do in the bush and they also make a decent weapon system. However, if I knew I was going to have to fight (true apocalypse scenario), I'm taking my bastard sword with me, too. It's very light for a sword its size and handy enough to carry strapped to your pack. Of course, I would also have a range weapon, my crossbow and probably a slingshot as well. Rather than the bastard sword...maybe a good Spear head (Cold Steel Bushman). Knife and spear (when you make your own shaft.
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Post by bluetrain on Aug 29, 2016 14:25:23 GMT
I'd say a lot depended on where you live. I don't really see a scenario where I'm actually going to make a long trek, especially at my age, nor to I necessarily see that you'd be spending a great deal of time in the deep woods. But I'm not familiar with your reference point of a world like Revolution. Personally I'd pick a simple, inexpensive fixed blade knife. In fact, I have a bunch of them, although I rarely use any of them. In thinking about a survival situation, you should not focus on having the essentials, whatever they might be, but rather on learning how to do without them.
In any social collapse situation like we had when, uh, well, we've never had one, have we? Anyway, in any social collapse situation I can think of, everyone's got a gun and as my father said about when he was in combat in Italy in 1944, "there wasn't going to be any knife fighting."
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pgandy
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Post by pgandy on Aug 29, 2016 15:09:05 GMT
It’s an old post. But referring to your father’s statement I cannot argue there. Nevertheless there are many jobs that a firearm cannot perform such as digging a hole, slicing/preparing food, shovelling, clearing an area, cutting up fire wood, and much more. Much goes back to your opening statements. A machete will be hard to beat. Blade style will require more thought but for GP work a Latin style will be hard to top.
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Post by bluetrain on Aug 29, 2016 17:40:04 GMT
Well, frankly it doesn't have to be the end of civilization as we know it (that happens all the time anyway) for us to think about interesting situations and what might be handy to have along. Much depends on where and when. For example, places where a machete would be really hand are probably not places where you'd wish you had an ax instead. And vice versa. What you need in the winter won't be as necessary in the summertime. And what you need in the woods won't be that useful in the desert. And so on.
Of all the things you might find useful away from home, to put it one way, and which would be the most difficult to substitute with something else would be a plain and simple pot. Don't leave home without it!
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Post by Afoo on Aug 29, 2016 18:58:24 GMT
Just wondering how a kukri would fair in the scheme of general purpose utility - one of those 9-12 inch service ones. Seem to be a good compromise between a small axe and large knife
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Post by howler on Aug 29, 2016 19:56:19 GMT
Just wondering how a kukri would fair in the scheme of general purpose utility - one of those 9-12 inch service ones. Seem to be a good compromise between a small axe and large knife Real good I hear. They come in all sizes, but most are talking about the average sized ones (10-12" blade, I think).
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Post by howler on Aug 29, 2016 20:07:04 GMT
Really, the question should be what minimal COMBINATION of tools should be brought in a CERTAIN environment. Tool combination for car camping/backpacking/bugout, tool combination for cold climate, tool combination for desert climate. Under ALL circumstances, a lightweight fixed blade (like a Mora) should be carried (because there is no Earthly reason not to).
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