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Post by Barnaum on Oct 18, 2012 18:47:17 GMT
I know the rapiers slender blade doesn't quite lend itself to the nature of other tactical swords, but has anyone seen a tactical sword that resembles a rapier or side sword?
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Sean (Shadowhowler)
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Post by Sean (Shadowhowler) on Oct 18, 2012 18:50:57 GMT
No, but I'd like to. My favorite tac weapons are the ones Gus Trim has made... would love to get a few of those. If he made a Tac Rapier I'd be all over it.
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Post by Lukas MG (chenessfan) on Oct 18, 2012 19:16:29 GMT
I don't think a tactical rapier would be practical. The problem's not the slender blade, it would work just as well as on any normal rapier. However, the rapier relies way to much on the complex guard to be used without such (same reason I'm not a fan of tactical longsword... totally crap when you try to actually use it like one). Th only tac designs I see use for are short machete like swords, e.g. kopis, khukri, etc. There the original design and fighting technique does not incorporate hand guards so they can easily be transferred into tactical designs.
Btw, I'd imagine a long tactical Jian would pretty much be like a tac rapier... and I know Gus made some of those.
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Post by Svadilfari on Oct 18, 2012 20:12:18 GMT
I *suspect* a 'tactical rapier" could be made...but I think it would wind up looking very much like a current , normal, fencing epee. Simple bell guard, flexible thrusting blade.
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Post by Anders on Oct 18, 2012 21:21:51 GMT
Define "tactical."
I mean, is it an aestetic, a manufacturing approach, or a matter of fuctionality in a specific context?
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Post by Barnaum on Oct 18, 2012 21:31:07 GMT
I think a katzbalger guard might work for a tac rapier. I also just found a design made by Hirsohi that I think could be modified a bit to make a great tac rapier. Attachments:
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Post by Elheru Aran on Oct 18, 2012 21:59:13 GMT
Anders is on the mark here. I think 'tactical' comes down to one main thing and a secondary option:
A simplified form of sword/blade, using a full tang and slab grips which can be easily changed out with a simple edge, the guard being in one piece with the blade, and
it's capable of doing 'non-sword' tasks as well if needed such as cutting (light) pieces of wood, chopping vines, etc.
I think the rapier fails at both because:
--While the blade isn't particularly difficult, there's almost no way to make a complex guard part of the blade.
--It's a very specialized blade that's not very good at other tasks.
--The length precludes easy carry except at your side, where it gets in the way, or on your back, where you can't draw it.
Now, if you adjust 'tactical' to include simple guards, then you could do a rapier with what Oakeshott called a 'half guard', that is, a guard with pas d'ane (rings) and a knuckle-guard.
A better alternative might be a smallsword-size piece; this would be somewhat simpler and the guard would be more practical, a pair of plates on each side of the quillion and the knuckle-guard could be integral to the blade. You could also make the blade more robust, sidesword-sized.
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Post by kingrikoraru on Oct 20, 2012 6:33:00 GMT
Yea, I feel that the rapier as a whole is designed to have a fancy guard and a specialized stabbing blade, making it a type of weapon that is designed for dueling and as a dress sword. To have a tactical version of it would negate the fanciness of it, and I would think that a tactical version of a rapier is just about any side swords.
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Post by Mr.Wallace on Oct 23, 2012 3:53:34 GMT
On the other hand, if you have a bucket of black paint and an old Windlass laying around... :lol:
The good news is, if you're carrying a Rapier of any make, you'll have the tactical advantage over some one with a pocket knife in a fight.The bad news is, the pocket knife will have an advantage by nearly as wide a margin for everyday tasks, which is 90% of the appeal when one thinks of a tactical sword. I really can't think of any way around it with a long, thin stabbing blade, unless you intend to use it strictly as a defensive or offensive weapon. It'll have no other utility. I imagine a swept hilt could be stream lined, say 3 bars from pommel to guard, but that in and of itself will render it even more difficult to use for any thing but stabbing zombies.
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Post by kingrikoraru on Oct 23, 2012 3:57:15 GMT
Even stabbing zombies to kill would be hard with a rapier. Plus a tactical side sword would be so much more useful To think of it...a tactical japanese katana/wak/ninjato is really the best tac sword I believe
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Post by Mr.Wallace on Oct 23, 2012 4:08:17 GMT
I don't know man, I've seen Tactical Gladius do some amazing things.
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Post by kingrikoraru on Oct 23, 2012 4:25:21 GMT
But that tac waki is very...imposing. Actually I would want to carry a tactical nodaichi around.
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Post by Anders on Oct 27, 2012 23:02:58 GMT
See, the problem here is that tactical swords are basically a form of fantasy sword, because often the aestetics have a higher priority than the practical functionality. From what I understand, the concept of tactical swords is that of a sword made from a modern perspective with contemporary materials and techniques, and designed to be inexpensive, easy to manufacture and maintain, and designed for functional practicality.
But then, the tactical longswords that Angus Trim designed do not have dedicated guards. This makes them highly difficult if not impossible to use the way a longsword is supposed to be used. The only real reason for this is because "rudimentary guard cut from the same stock as the blade" has become part of the popular definition of "tactical sword", in other words an aestetic concern. You may recognize this as the direct opposite of prioritizing practicality.
In reality, no matter how bare-bones you make your longsword you still can't skip the guard, because the guard is a big part of how a longsword is actually used. It is an essential component - any sword designed for a certain task will always have whatever parts it requires to perform that task, it's simple logic.
So, if a tactical sword doesn't actually need a guard, then it shouldn't have one. But if a "tactical rapier" does require some form of complex hilt to function the way a rapier is supposed to, then so be it. Because if all you want is a sword with the tactical "look", then why would you even care? It's not like you're going to be dueling anyone with it.
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Post by Deleted on Oct 28, 2012 7:27:32 GMT
I think that most Euro swords (not including dress and court swords) were already practical and 'tactical', many being military issue ordnance. There are not much unnecessary components to remove from them to enhance functionality or durability, about all you can do is change the grip and scabbard to something that can endure immersion in water.
On the other hand, katana, which are essentially dress swords, have a lot of potential to improve their 'tactical' nature. I've got the Hanwei Tactical Katana and Wakizashi, and seriously, these are way more practical than the dressy delicate traditional dress sabres worn by aristocrats in the Edo period in Japan. In my mind these are a successful tactical style conversion intelligently done.
I think a 'tactical rapier' is a bit of a problem because the rapier, much like the smallsword, is a dress sword, not a military weapon to start with.
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Post by f.m. on Nov 7, 2012 17:36:07 GMT
It would help to know what kind of "tactical" aesthetic you're looking for, as many rapier designs involved metal or bone grips and steel guards, which would hold up fine against micarta or wood, and look better. If you're after something that's functional like a rapier but looks more tactical or military, i would suggest a later model, early 20th century military straight saber, something like this: www.kultofathena.com/product.asp ... tton+sword These have sturdy military-looking construction but are still close relatives of the rapier. Doesn't get much more "tactical" than blackened steel and green canvas..
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Post by Elheru Aran on Nov 8, 2012 13:30:21 GMT
The Patton saber, or something similar, is actually probably the best compromise between the 'tactical' aesthetic and actual functionality as a rapier. Good eye!
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