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Post by cmwilliams94 on Sept 12, 2012 10:42:11 GMT
Hello! I am new to the community, and as well as swords too. I know I want a katana, and I did a bit of looking on what I now see are cheapo sites such as budk.com. I found this site when I googled what to look for in a katana. I have read a topic or two and have a general understating of the basics. Being a college student I don't have much spare money. But I figured it was time to finally get a sword. I'm glad I was smart and did some research. What I found recommended in one of the topics in this forum was sinoswords.com The sales team/person has gotten back to me with some small advice and a price. I don't want to spend too much because money is tight. I chose the 1050 steel because I figured it would be cheapest while still have functionality. The price he gave me was $95, which is less than my budget max. I was significantly surprised that a fully customized sword could cost so little. I assume it is because of the type of steel. I sent a reply asking for prices on the tamahagne and folded 1095 steels. I don't know much about the difference other than the carbon content. What I want to know is the difference in performance and edge retaining. I don't mind sharpening it once and a while but if it is constantly getting dings and nicks on the edge, I will get annoyed. My concern is that if I choose a higher quality steel the price will jump into the $400-500 range. If it does not, is it worth it to get a blade made of 1095 or tamahagne? I hope to spend less than $150 but if I have to I can shell out $200 if the sword is worth it. The sales Rep also said that with 1050 it's not really worth it to have a hamon or traditional polish. The polish I can live without. But I find a straight hamon to be very pleasing to the eye.
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Post by Don Boogie on Sept 12, 2012 13:29:17 GMT
btw,have you checked out the other range of katana's that might fit in you're budget? I believe some forum members said that musashi swords are pretty and fuctional to Check these out,but twm,i am not sure if you can get a katana wit ha Real Hamon for less than 150 dollar,perhaps you might save up a lil bit and get a Ronin or Kaze katana But if you wan one for less than 200 dollar,check these out: www.kultofathena.com/swords-katana.aspScroll a lil bit down untill you see the musashi line,btw,i have the last samurai katana of musashi and it holds pretty well,tough,it's a real cheap sword www.sword-buyers-guide.com/last- ... sword.html
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Post by Elheru Aran on Sept 12, 2012 13:54:59 GMT
If you're willing to save up for a little bit...
Kris Cutlery does a very nice line of katana with a sweet sugaha (I think that's the right word) hamon, which is the 'straight hamon' you mention. Well worth the money.
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Post by cmwilliams94 on Sept 12, 2012 14:03:01 GMT
what draws me in about the sino is the customization. being able to define exactly what I want it to look like, and perform like, etc. So I'm pretty dead set on a custom made one. I don't want fancy or intricate. And there's just something about swords from movies that makes me stick my nose up at it. I guess I shouldn't have done the long winded explanation and just asked about the types of steel.
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Post by aussie-rabbit on Sept 12, 2012 14:08:59 GMT
If you can stretch to $200 there are some good basic katana's that you will be happy to own. the hamon is the temper line between the softer back of the blade and the harder edge, most swords under $200 (but not all) have a "fake" hamon created with some form of acid. Musashi Swords do make some inexpensive functional swords like their Wind Dragon Hanwei's Practical XL Light Katana may fit your wallet Cheness Kaze Katana is a traditional favourite Light Cutter Katana T10 Munetoshi - lots of good reports although I have not seen one here, T10 steel is very tough and the price is surprisingly good. Have a look at the review on the SBG page here. www.sword-buyers-guide.com/Munet ... Sword.html
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Post by cmwilliams94 on Sept 12, 2012 14:21:12 GMT
From what I can tell, they do use the traditional and proper method for the hamon. If i'm not mistaken, it's formed when the blade is covered in clay and then heat treated. they show this in the link below. Step 10 I believe www.sinosword.com/Works/
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Post by Adrian Jordan on Sept 12, 2012 14:57:35 GMT
Hello friend, welcome to SBG.
1050 is an okay steel. 1045 is the generally agreed on absolute minimum carbon number you'd want to use for a functional sword. With 1050 I'd not worry so much about nicks, but more dings, sets and dulling. None of these problems are particularly difficult to remedy, though you will need practice(as with anything) to get your skills just right.
The series of photos you linked are of a smith using a tatara to create and forge Tamahagane into a sword. That is not how they would do it with a generic 10XX steel, so bear that in mind. For $95, you run some risks. The hamon may be fake, the blade may be tempered but not heat treated, ect. Sinosword has really been upping the ante on low cost custom pieces, though. These are not guaranteed to be the case, but I just wanted you to be aware of the dangers. I'd send them an email asking if it will be tempered and heat treated, or if they leave out one of those steps.
Either way, I hope you get a rad sword, and don't hesitate to furnish us with pictures and your thoughts when you get it, hahaha.
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Post by cmwilliams94 on Sept 12, 2012 15:17:25 GMT
thank you. it was on your recommendation from the guidelines that I found sinoswords. I'm aware of the risks and I am considering getting the 1095 or tamahagne if the price is right. I'll keep these thoughts in mind, but because they are 12 hours difference time zone wise, it will have to wait until at least tonight. when I get whatever it is I decide on, I will most certainly post my ameatur review; as bad as it may be haha
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Post by wolf_shade on Sept 12, 2012 15:19:09 GMT
Alas, we are all really just sword voyeurs. Even Swiger, who has sufficient swords to offload excess as a service to the less blessed in the community is not satisfied with looking at his own collection, but requests the vicarious gratification of pictures. A sad sad lot are we. Join the enabling, post pics when you get your new sharpy. :lol:
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Post by cmwilliams94 on Sept 12, 2012 17:01:41 GMT
this made me laugh harder than I should have :lol:
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Post by PaxAddict on Sept 12, 2012 19:33:54 GMT
I'm new to the site, and relatively new to swords as well, but I'd suggest checking out Handmadesword.com Not suggesting it to deter you from sino, but when I was in the place you are now, it's what I decided on for that price range. The quality is there, and they do clay temper the hamon. Not the mention customization is totally there. They let you pick it all.
Edit: misspelled url
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Taran
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Post by Taran on Sept 12, 2012 23:40:17 GMT
That's what clenched it for me, too. Can't get the fittings customized as completely as I would like or made from a different material, but for the price, the customization is beyond what anyone else will do by a long shot. Granted, I am getting Chinese swords and spending 5x as much for each, but I am also getting quite the list of special features. The biggest price jump I ran into was the differentially hardened twistcore blades. But ebony scabbards didn't exactly help the bottom line, either.
1095 through-hardened (TH) (which will result in no natural hamon, iirc) shouldn't cost much, if any, more than what you listed in your first post. Tamahagane almost certainly will, as will differential hardening (DH). While a 1095 TH blade may not be as pretty as anything else I mentioned above, it will be every bit as functional. And possibly even more so. Modern steel, through hardened, has more reliable results even with a poor smith (it's easier and simpler and modern steels are amazing compared to what the ancients had available).
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Kuya
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Post by Kuya on Sept 13, 2012 1:13:48 GMT
$95 for a katana that has the fittings/theme you want and a hamon? Bargain, get it.
Just keep in mind that Sinosword (JKOO) have the cheap and ugly bo-hi grooves, so I would suggest not getting one if you're getting it with a groove. If you're not getting the groove, then wow... $95 for a clay tempered "custom."
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Post by cmwilliams94 on Sept 13, 2012 1:20:55 GMT
Pax, from what I can tell, there is no level of customization at all. At least not on the level of sino.
Taran, thank you. I did not know that TH didn't produce a hamon. That's definitely something I will keep in mind. As for the core, I'm keeping it simple one piece style. Once I get more information from the sales Rep I think I can make a fully informed decision.
Kuya, thanks for letting me know about the bo hi. I was thinking about a groove, but now... perhaps not. Maybe with another more expensive sword later on. I am not 100% sure if the hamon is real with clay tempering like with the tamahagne. Once I get another email I will let everyone know what goes on
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Post by PaxAddict on Sept 13, 2012 10:49:17 GMT
If you contact them, you can mix and match any of their pieces, but most of their options are simply listed as different swords.
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Post by cmwilliams94 on Sept 13, 2012 11:55:16 GMT
I was on my tablet which was rather small. So I had a hard time navigating the site.
They got back to me with this: "According to your situation, I suggest 1095 or T10 steel, it's enough for cutting practice. hardness about 55-56 HRc. and we sharpen it by full hand, extremly sharp, easy to cut plastic bottle, bamboo etc. price will be 128USD. If blade with clay termpered hamon, hardness will be 56-57 HRc. price will be 188USD. 1095 folded steel, 226USD. with hamon. tamahagane steel, 795USD. hamon + traditional polish. These price just reference for you. final price must be according to your fainly order, because different fittings price also different."
Sorry for the bad grammar and misspellings, at least it's close enough. I did a rough guess of shipping price based on the average weight of a sword and its size. $40-$45 for shipping and another 10-15 to wire the money through western union. As I thought, the price jump was there, so tamahagne is out. I have classes today so I won't be able to respond to him or to thins until this afternoon. Thoughts and comments would be appreciated. Now I'm going to be late for my psych class if I don't get going :shock:
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Post by wolf_shade on Sept 13, 2012 12:58:48 GMT
They accept paypal, so there will be bit of savings for you there if you don't do the wire transfer. I don't remember what shipping was for me. The traditional polish increased the cost of a blade I bought somewhere between 80 and 110 dollars (I can't remember which it was) so I went with mirror polish. But that's something to consider given the price he quoted (granted that still leaves tamahagane out of your price range). This is their customization form. It's pretty straight forward if you are after something basic that fits in thier options. It probably gets considerably more complex if you stray from norm. I think their tsuba listed here are grouped in order of cost, highest to lowest, but don't quote me on that. I just know that I asked for H17, was told it was out of stock, and tried to replace with one of the High Quality Copper was told it would be extra. They were, however, willing to make/order/whatever one of the copper designs, GS-035, with the same material, metal alloy (I've heard this is usually a tin zinc alloy), as the H series so no cost increase. If there is a higher priced fitting you really like ask them if its available in a cheaper material (unless your concerned about that materials durability). I just received the sword yesterday and put up pics of it here. If you order from them, double check the order when they respond to you (they'll basically e-mail you back your form, but double check it anyway). Then, they should send you pictures of the sword when it is completed. Double check that against your order as well. They swapped menuki on me, but when I asked about it they said it was because the menuki I chose often break during the maki. The question of "why sell them then" asside, I kept their choice because I'd rather have a piece that is sturdy and looks decent than one that might snap. No need to apologize for their spelling and grammar. They aren't native english speakers and I certainly don't fault them for it. They could demand that we make our requests in chinese if they felt like it.
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Post by cmwilliams94 on Sept 13, 2012 13:18:48 GMT
Wolf, thank you! These pics are awesome! Their bohi looks a bit thicker than what I was expecting so i might drop that as well. I will probably go with the mirror polish. To be honest I don't really care about the polish. The tsuba I chose was a basic one, R20 I believe. As for the menuki, I did not put one on the form. Their pictures were blurry and I didn't want to chose something I didn't like, so I chose nothing. I have asked for a copy of my original order form so I can figure it all out and change what might be necessary. Depending on shipping costs I might have to settle to go without the clay tempering to fit my budget.
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Taran
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Post by Taran on Sept 13, 2012 18:43:06 GMT
I knew tamahagane would be more, but I am surprised it is so Much more. Other than that, pretty much as expected.
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Kuya
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Post by Kuya on Sept 13, 2012 21:00:27 GMT
You should drop the bo-hi option on the fact that it ends in the cheap-o rounded way where they just lift off the polish grinder instead of actually shape the bo-hi to the blade like this one or if you don't have a lot of money, you can still get a beautiful bo-hi on a $99 sword like this one.
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