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Post by aussie-rabbit on Oct 9, 2012 21:55:58 GMT
Rocksalt
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Post by zentesukenVII on Oct 10, 2012 1:46:27 GMT
Speaking of rocksalt, will that foul your barrel?
I have actually heard you can get in more trouble just injuring someone in self defense rather than killing them. Not to mention someone who is chemically fueled (they probably are if they are breaking into your house) will take more than a shot of rocksalt to take down. Your probably going to have to hit them with an entire payload of 00 buck to bring them down.
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Post by KentsOkay on Oct 10, 2012 5:05:13 GMT
This is very true - generally using a less than lethal or improvised LTL is frowned upon. Castle law *generally* is interpreted as shoot the bad guy dead, not wound or maim him. On another forum, one of the members who had taken a carbine course walked in a guy who had broken in and been zoinking out on his couch. The home owner had a complete right to shoot the perp on the spot, but instead chose to restrain him, without shooting him. No shots fired, no fowl. Police took the perp away and no messy paperwork. Had he chosen to shoot him with the intent to wound, there would have been much more paper work and questions asked. The premise is, you only shoot someone when your life is in danger, and if you only shoot to wound, you obviously didn't feel threatened enough.
I don't feel like birdshot is worth mixing in with your ammunition cornucopia, but I can agree with the general premise. My "Oh semprini!" AR mag is loaded with two 62 gr hollow points followed by two 55gr FMJ's, then two more 62gr grain hp. Pattern continues for all 28 rounds in the mag. Why? If a hollowpoint double tap doesn't take the perp down, they must be armored or I suck. I can't do anything about an armored guy, but I can train, so FMJ's up next to make armor suck less, then two more HP's because semprini, there may be more than one of them. Rinse, repeat. At some point I will have quality FMJ/penetrator-y ammo and this will replace the cheapo-FMJ's I have now.
If/when I have the money, I will probably do the first 20 rounds as good people/Reaver stoppers, and the last 8 as tracers/incindierary and armor piercing rounds. Because holy semprini, I must be shooting at a semprini Terminator if I still haven't stopped it after 20 rounds.
Yes, I am paranoid.
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Post by aussie-rabbit on Oct 10, 2012 5:28:47 GMT
Dead men tell no tales still holds true.
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Post by GUEST on Oct 10, 2012 6:31:09 GMT
Kent for your info 62gr even lighter Hp in 223 will punch right throw soft body armour. If he's wearing hard armour a fmj of aany weight isn't going to do any good. This comes from tactical police team testing, I've seen it and done it testing ammo against soft armour.
As staging your loads for antioipation just stick with OO buck is will do whatever you need in home defense. You will ever know in advance what's going to happen.
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Post by KentsOkay on Oct 10, 2012 9:10:39 GMT
Fooey! Terminators ain't gonna get the drop on me, no sir!
*reloads his "oh semprini" mags with 0.248lbs of hollow pointed Russian kisses*
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Post by zentesukenVII on Oct 10, 2012 15:54:50 GMT
Yeah I guess we all are a bit paranoid, I tend to look at is as preparedness. I just don't like becoming a victim. I was mugged when I was 13 and it changed me I guess.
I have birdshot in my ammo stores for 2 things. Learning how my gun shoots and patterns, recoils etc. I have not even fired my weapon yet, and I don't want to spend so much money on nothing but 00 buck and slugs. I got a box of 100 Winchester #8 for 20$, seemed like a good deal for some fun shooting. Also I keep a few shots of it in my bug out ammo box, for bird hunting/small game hunting.
I also keep BB shot in my pack. Seems like a good mid sized game round and could be used for defense. It's a hefty enough payload and I wouldn't want to get hit with it.
The rest is 00 buck. I also need to get some slugs.
After I shoot this thing a bit more I will be buying the following for my weapon
1. Small cleaning kit (capable of fitting inside the hollow stock). 2. Side saddle. 3. Stock ammo saddle 4. Sling 5. A recoil extension pad. The stock feels a bit short for my longer arms so another inch or two would be great. 6. Ammo pouches for my MOLLE belt. 7. A light/RIS mount to affix it.
Any other ideas would be welcome.
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Post by KentsOkay on Oct 10, 2012 16:43:17 GMT
A light should be your #1 priority. Positive target identification prevents accidental shootings, and it looks better in court.
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Taran
Member
Posts: 2,621
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Post by Taran on Oct 10, 2012 17:07:38 GMT
Dead men also don't sue.
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Taran
Member
Posts: 2,621
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Post by Taran on Oct 10, 2012 17:19:25 GMT
Dogs. Dogs will tell you whether you have an actual intruder or just a family member or guest. They will also tell you exactly Where that person is and his intentions. And, finally, they prevent more home invasions just by letting the intruder know that someone is alert. I generally support either large, scary dogs (whether they actually tend to violence or not is immaterial, most people are afraid of the "gentle giant" that is a great dane), and smaller, loud, active, alert types. Terriers are good for this, but tend to be a tad too hyper and yappy for me. I really have weapons only for the case when someone comes into my house with intent to do harm. The alarm system and the pair of keeshonden behind the locked exterior doors and windows keep the rest away. Better yet, the kees can be heard, when they want to be (and have proven it) by the entire neighbourhood over the noise of the bar even on its busiest nights. When they light up on someone, the entire neighbourhood is out looking for the problem. My primary Home Defense Tools: www.facebook.com/#!/media/set/?s ... 928&type=3 A good dog or 2 (or 3 or 4 or...) is your best home security investment. Far more effective home defense than a shotgun when you're at work. And good for companionship, too.
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Post by zentesukenVII on Oct 10, 2012 18:09:30 GMT
I got a little German shepherd beagle and she may be smaller, but she is incredibly strong and she can be seriously vicious. If she hears a loud noise in the night she goes crazy. If I hear her doing that I'm going to load my gun, call 911 and investigate.
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Post by zentesukenVII on Oct 15, 2012 4:26:19 GMT
Finally got to shoot my gun and it was GREAT!
I shot a few things that I just wanted to blow up, but my main target was a very large fallen tree trunk. It was basically a massive, dense wall of dirt, and it faced right at me from across the little river we were by. This gun certainly has less kick than the other shotguns I've shot, but I'm sure my stance is better now too. Also, the patterns were VERY nice and tight. Every time I shot the dirt wall a ton of dirt would just fall into the river where the shot hit. I tested to see how wide the patterns were from various distances, at about 30 yards the pattern was no more than 5 feet with 00 buck and #8 shot. The choke seems to work a bit better than I had expected.
Shooting water was really fun too, I'd hit the little bushes growing in the water and they'd just splash and there would be nothing left. I realized it's hard to miss with a shotgun too, maybe it's just the sights, maybe i'm not a half bad shot, or maybe its the good choke I have, but it seemed very accurate.
I hit a few milk jugs filled with water from about 5 yards away with 00 buck and bird shot and MAN was it cool. Sure beats slicing them in half. The blast radius was probably at least 20 feet around. We all got wet!
My main accomplishment was learning to not flinch when I squeeze the trigger. I had my girlfriends dad load my gun, some shot and some empty shells. I'd rack it a fire. The first shot was an empty shell and I flinched so bad the barrel moved probably 8 inches down. I did this over and over again until I got used to not flinching. It is an exercise I'm going to be repeating in the future.
All in all I had a blast. I'm proud to be a gun owner, and I see what all the buzz is about. I took videos of myself shooting and I barely jerked back, even with some heavier loads. I have definitely improved since the last time I shot. Feels good to shoot a gun and not be scared of it hitting my back hard. My only complaint is the noise. I wore ears for the most part, but at one point I took them off just to see how loud it really was any my ears rang until I fell asleep. Guns are loud.
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Post by zentesukenVII on Oct 25, 2012 6:00:49 GMT
Made a couple videos. Also got a few accessories.....
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Post by zentesukenVII on Oct 25, 2012 16:41:16 GMT
By the way who knows of a good shotgun forum?
I joined shotgunworld (friendliest firearms forum) very far from. The responses people give me are never in depth, never polite and they just dont seem to care about my questions. I get more answers on this forum regarding firearms than on a firearm forum.
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Post by thana357 on Jan 19, 2013 17:10:48 GMT
After I shoot this thing a bit more I will be buying the following for my weapon
1. Small cleaning kit (capable of fitting inside the hollow stock). 2. Side saddle. 3. Stock ammo saddle 4. Sling 5. A recoil extension pad. The stock feels a bit short for my longer arms so another inch or two would be great. 6. Ammo pouches for my MOLLE belt. 7. A light/RIS mount to affix it.
Any other ideas would be welcome.[/quote] I think those 7 items you listed are excellent addition to your shotgun . I bought my Remington 870 Express back in 1991 and I modified /mounted / fixed so much items on them ; speed loader (the contraption that let you speed load 4 shells ), different kind of folding stock , pistol grip , extension tube etc. I finally end up with 20 inches barrel , side saddle and original stock and forend just the way it came home with me . I discovered during range session and E-trap range that those gizmos weren't working or even hamper the good shooting . The only thing I don't like about my Rem870 is the extractor ,it look kind of fragile and it only come with one compare to Mossberg but my 870 is 20 plus years old now and the extractor hasn't break off yet so I guess it was stronger than it look. Mossberg 500 is such a pain to take it apart I don't know about 590 but Rem870 is the easiest to take apart and clean . I wish the shot shell did not cost so much this day so I can take it out to the range more often
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Post by Jack Tar on Jan 20, 2013 9:53:49 GMT
Try forums.nitroexpress.com/ubbthreads.php. It's a very friendly site, but I used it for big bore rifles, reloading, the various hunting forums, etc. They've got a shotgun forum that I never visited but it's got to be mostly the same people. It's an Australian site (with a lot of Europeans as well as Americans as members) so the shotgun forum is waterfowl and upland bird hunting only. No big game, self or home defense discussion. My two cents. 00 buck is good, but it's not the be all and end all in 12ga defensive ammo. #1 buck is also very good. 00 buck is .33 cal, while #1 is .30 cal. You can mechanically fit a heavier payload of #1 into the same length 12ga shell then you can 00 because the slightly smaller shot doesn't interfere with each other as much. If you compare these two Winchester loads (00 on top, #1 below) www.cheaperthandirt.com/product/57941www.cheaperthandirt.com/product/65081You'll see the 00 buck load spits out 9 .33 cal balls at 1325 feet per second. the #1 buck load spits out 16 .30 cal balls at 1250 seconds. The reason the second load is slower is because it's throwing a lot more lead. The payload of lead in the 00 load is about a little less than 500 grains vs. 640 in #1. Winchester makes a 2 3/4 defense load with 20 copper plated #1 buckshot but good luck ever finding any. That should be close to 800 grains going downrange, which is almost immoral (almost). To get 15 00 buck in a 12ga you have to use a 3" shell (but then you can get 24 #1 in the same size package) but I don't know anyone who recommends a 3" mag buckshot load for Home Defense. That's why that 20 buckshot Winchester 2 3/4" #1 load is like gold. #1 buck will is the smallest buckshot size that will consistently penetrate at any sane shotgun range to be lethal. If it's too far to get the job done with #1 buck you don't need 00 you need a different gun. Use 00 if you like but pattern your shotgun because some will throw off flyers and with only 9 pellets you can't afford too many. Don't worry about overpenetration. Hit your target. If you miss with anything that's worthwhile then whatever's on the other side of that drywall or hollow door is in lethal danger. You've got good instincts. It's never a good idea to rack live shells through a gun to check function especially indoors. Snap caps work fine; I like A-Zoom. They'll work fine through a pump shotgun, great in a revolver to practice with speed loaders, and dryfiring a bolt rifle so you can practice working the bolt without taking it down from the shoulder. As far as the 590 goes we used to use them for our ship's security reaction force and they worked just as well for us as the 870 would have. But then we didn't take them down. That was the job of the Gunners Mates in the armory. Plus we didn't drag them through sand and mud like the Army types or the Marines.
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Post by zentesukenVII on Jan 21, 2013 19:01:48 GMT
... 5AgWczkb4wMade a video of my loadout so far. The plate carrier is being replaced by a more trim one. This one is too big for me and does not shoulder my gun well. I also added 4 level III rifle plates form flash bainite AR500 steel. The loadout weighs about 50 pounds now but is not terribly heavy when I'm wearing it. I played a full day of airsoft with it on and had no problems, my shoulders a bit sore, but I'd gladly sacrifice a bit of mobility for the protection. I really had no problems sprinting with them on. The only issue was that my back got pretty hot, so I may get a lighter vest in multicam for the summer months. But the ACU for winter is great for snow here in WI. The esstac shotshell cards are really awesome. I may go run n gunning this weekend so I'll get to really test them, but so far they have proven their worth. I am looking for a way to carry more ammo on my person for longer patrols, engagements etc. The philosophy of use right now is pretty much neighborhood patrol for WROL or SHTF scenario.
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