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Post by zentesukenVII on Sept 8, 2012 3:39:36 GMT
I'll have my first firearm sometime this next week. Remington 870 tactical home defense style with an extended 6 shot tube, black synthetic rifle stock and ribbed synthetic fore end. I'm getting this gun because I feel like soon I may not be able to get a gun. Also this guns purpose will be for self/home defense, a SHTF scenario and a bit of duck hunting.
My list of things to buy for it are as follows- -Ammo (I have about 1100 reloaded birdshot at my disposal for familiarizing myself with this gun, but I want to learn how to use 00 buck. Is shooting reloads bad for your gun?) -Shell holder (for the stock, and also a molle pouch to hold them= on my vest/belt) - A nice hard case. I will use the soft case my girlfriends dad gave me for duck hunting with him. -A longer duck hunting barrel -some sort of RIS mount for the end of the gun -A sling. - Ghost ring sights, I've heard they are great, if you can give me some info on them I'd appreciate it!
And lastly a bayonet. I've seen them that mount to ris. Is this practical? Can you guys give me some links/pointers on these?
I will post a review/ shooting video once I get my gun. I am in Milwaukee so I can't shoot till the next time I'm up north. But I can't wait to go to the range!!!
Thanks for reading.
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Post by KentsOkay on Sept 8, 2012 4:50:25 GMT
Shooting quality reloads should be just fine, I am however a self confessed abhorer of shotguns, so I may be incorrect.
A bayonet on a pump action is a stupid idea because of the potential of self injury while racking the slide. That said, watch this video before thinking more about getting a bayonet:
Can you follow his words?
Can you live up to his degree of testicular fortitude and bat-semprini insanity?
If yes, mount a bayonet!
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Sam H
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Post by Sam H on Sept 8, 2012 11:34:39 GMT
I'll give you my opinion on the points you asked about:
1. Reloaded ammo: So long as the ammo has been reloaded properly there should be no damage to your shotgun. Buck shot... haven't shot a ton of it but its basically like shooting bird shot. Oh and 1100 rounds goes quickly. I'll do that in about 4 days of shooting with my shotgun.
2. Shell holder: Want one? Get one. Believe it or not you can get a pretty good quality one fairly inexpensively at Wal-Mart.
3. Hard case: Again, want one? Get one. Its not necessary though.
4. Duck hunting: You want a longer barrel for duck hunting? You could do that OR you could just put a tighter choke in the barrel you have now and you'll be ok. I duck and pheasant hunt with my home defense shotgun and that only has an 18" barrel on it. The last couple of years I've had no problems bringing down ducks and pheasants at the ranges that anyone else would want to shoot at with a 24" or longer barrel. Choose your choke properly and you'll do fine. I use an improved modified choke for pheasant and a full choke for ducks. That usually allows me to bring down birds out to almost 50 yards. Beyond that I wouldn't take shots with a 24" or longer barrel anyway. Make sure you get used to steel shot too since in WI its illegal to shoot ducks with lead shot. They have a different density than lead shot and fly differently with less energy. If you intend to hunt make sure you PATTERN your shotgun BEFORE going out on a hunt. A good hunter knows where and how his shotgun will pattern so he knows the kinds of shots he can take. Otherwise you'll find yourself looking foolish and losing a lot of birds. Also make sure you have a good bird dog. That can make the difference in a good hunt and a frustrating hunt. OH and to stay legal while duck hunting you should consider either getting a different magazine that allows a max of 3 rounds in the gun (that includes the one in the chamber) or put a plug in to restrict your magazine to only 2 rounds with one in the chamber. If not the DNR will hit you hard for it. For barrels and other hunting accessories I like to go to Fleet Farm. Cabelas isn't too far from Milwaukee and you could go there too but be prepared to have to bend over and take it...
5. RIS mount? If you want one get one but you don't need one. Personally I wouldn't put too much on the end of my shotgun. If you're using it for home defense then maybe you could clamp on a flashlight and that's it. Of course it'll be your shotgun and you are free to do as you wish to it.
6. A sling: Sure, if you want one get one. There's a large variety of slings you can get out there ranging from your basic rifle sling to a single point sling, three point sling etc. I've even heard of a 5 point harness... :shock: Personally I don't have a sling on my shotgun. Never found a use for it on a shotgun. I do have slings on my rifles though. You can buy a sling just about anywhere, Wal-Mart, Fleet Farm etc. You can spend anywhere from $10 on up to $100+ depending on what you feel like sticking on your gun.
7. Ghost ring sights: On a shotgun??? Oook. If you want to that's fine. Personally I'll stick with my el-cheapo Tru-Glo florescent bead. Yep all I have is a bead. I had a red/green dot 1x optic on the gun but I found out it really didn't make target acquisition any easier than my florescent bead I put on the gun. That and it also made the gun look funny to me so I took it off. Now I shoot with the florescent bead - put the orange bead on or just under the target (depending on range etc) and slap that trigger! I regularly pull down mid twenties shooting trap with my 18" barrel, modified choke and florescent bead. I rarely miss a bird or rabbit too when I'm out hunting. I got my bead at Fleet Farm for around $5.
8. Bayonet on a shotgun: That's the danged silliest thing I've heard yet! Keep your knife on your hip so you can actually use it if you need it. If you're using it for home defense the whole point of a shotgun or firearm of any sort is so you DON'T have to get close enough to melee with the intruder. In WI its also illegal to hunt with any firearm that has a bayonet attached to it too. Of course its your gun and you can do what you want but if I see you with a bayonet on the ground you're going to have to call an ambulance for me because I'll have given myself a hernia or something laughing so hard at you. Before you say it'd be your backup I'll say this; personally if I managed to miss enough times INSIDE the confines of my home that I ran out of ammo on my shotgun I'll drop the danged thing and draw my 1911. Forget closing in for a bayonet attack - that requires really hairy balls that are much larger and heavier than mine (like a sasquatch).
If you ever want to shoot I'm just an hour north of Milwaukee. Let me know and come on up. I'll take you as my guest to the club I'm a member at and we can shoot there. I'm usually available evenings or weekends all day long. Either that or you can go to McMiller's in Eagle but prepared to pay some steep prices to shoot there. They do have a decent clay range there for shotgun shooting though. The other thing is Eagle is about a 45 minute drive from Milwaukee so its almost the same as coming up to shoot here with me. The benefit is that you don't have to pay to get on the range if you shoot with me - just bring your own ammo.
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Post by GUEST on Sept 8, 2012 21:58:52 GMT
Get a shell holder that mounts to the side of the receiver, Ghost ring sights are a great way to go, I'll put them on my 2 Remington 870 one of these days, I like a sling as long as it's quick detachable, RIS is ok just don't start hanging a lot on the gun. I like the idea of a longer barrel for duck hunting gives you a smoother swing and follow through hunting, Bayonet no way don't want to bent the barrel or magazine. Here's my 2 Remington 870's along with 2 Mossberg 500's The Remingtons have Speed Feed Stocks, plus Side Saddle receiver mount shell carriers.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Sept 8, 2012 22:27:34 GMT
I have a serrated tanto bayonet on my Mossberg 590. It's sort of a joke that no one else seems to get, but it makes me smile!
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Post by KentsOkay on Sept 9, 2012 0:44:46 GMT
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Post by Deleted on Sept 9, 2012 2:26:56 GMT
I use it when I'm patrolling the mall. Attachments:
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Post by Svadilfari on Sept 9, 2012 6:45:57 GMT
Actually, if my memory serves me correctly..I *think* I've seen some pics of a WW1 'trench sweeper' that was issued along with a bayonet..so a bayonet on a shot gun wasn't an impossible idea..but a rather impractial one. I think, basicly, the relatively thin walled shot gun barrels just weren't up to handling the stresses of bayonet work. But heck..I've also seen a british Webly revolver from WW1 that was fitted with a bayonet..so who knows
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Sept 9, 2012 12:32:16 GMT
Well I'm not trying to defend the practicality of a shotgun mounted bayonet, but bayonet lugs are a standard feature on the 590s. IIRC, as spec'ed by the US military.
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Sam H
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Post by Sam H on Sept 9, 2012 12:45:32 GMT
Here's the crux of the situation with the bayonet on a HOME DEFENSE shotgun.
The shotgun is going to be a home defense weapon and a hunting tool - NOT a combat weapon.
When you're entering combat (as in full scale you and your unit are encountering enemy forces hell bent on killing you) then sure you can mount a bayonet onto your gun (any gun you care to mount it on and yes that even means pistols) so just in case you run out of ammo, the gun jams etc. you can still close on the enemy and kill him with what is essentially a short spear.
When you're defending your home the idea of closing on an intruder so you can kill him with what is essentially a short spear is ludicrous. As I stated in my first post in this thread the whole idea of a firearm is to keep your intruder at a distance and dispatch the threat to your safety without having to get close enough to engage in melee. What I didn't explain is that in closing to melee range you're putting yourself at more physical risk AND in most jurisdictions you're now in violation of the law. Besides - if you can't stop the threat to your safety with 7 rounds of buck shot from a 12ga. you've got a serious problem. You're either a HORRIBLE shot and need to train more extensively (provided you live through the encounter), you got a VERY well trained and mentally tough intruder who is more than likely hell bent on killing you or worse, OR your home has been invaded by a gang and you're screwed anyway because you're out numbered and out gunned.
I know this is a sword forum and blades are highly romanticized here I think we all need to remember the actual application of the blade in this situation... which really means remember that the particular blade has NO actual application. Also keep in mind what Find... posted. Your local DA will not look lightly on you "defending your home" with a shotgun that has been rigged for a clearly offensive purpose.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Sept 9, 2012 13:08:33 GMT
Again, not practical. Just amusing (to me). Apparently irritating to you. If one was building a shotgun for home defense, I'd suggest a light.
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Sam H
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Post by Sam H on Sept 9, 2012 13:30:03 GMT
It is irritating. Why might you ask? It goes like this...
When you start telling people, "Hey I've got one and its amusing to me" etc. you're basically telling them that as long as your or someone else finds it "amusing" (which I don't know how one finds the idea amusing anyway) then its ok to have. Really its NOT ok to have because you're going to also be filling their heads with silly notions that could end up getting them killed.
Remember that you can romanticize all you want about swords and how they're fancy, lovely, sharp etc. I know I do. I love katana and as such I used to have many of them. Now I have only one. I've got more knives than I know what to do with though and frankly I feel bad about it because most of them are just sitting in a wood box not being used. In fact I think I may have more than 200 knives floating around in boxes and I don't even remember what I've got. Of them all I only use a few (more like 5) because they each have a use. The others were just wasted money over the years. I HAVE and still romanticize about swords. I'd LOVE to have a practical reason to wear one on a daily basis. I'd also LOVE to think that I could use a katana for home defense, survival etc. However I live in the real world and I have to consider the practical applications (or lack thereof) of my tools and toys. In my mind swords are toys - toys with a deadly bite but toys nontheless because they no longer have practical applications.
Firearms are tools. Firearms are also more powerful of tools than swords were. That is why the use of swords nowadays is impractical actually. The advent of firearms pretty much doomed swords to antiquity and obscurity - becoming status symbols and toys now. It happened historically and the whole concept of NOT bringing a knife to a gun fight has a basis in reality. You draw a knife, your opponent draws a gun. BANG! You're dead. Same goes for a sword in a gun fight.
So yes it irritates me when people go around filling young people (or not so young but equally inexperienced) with silly notions about dangerous topics.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Sept 9, 2012 13:51:41 GMT
I certainly cannot disagree with anything you've said. I'll just point out that I don't think any of my posts could be interpreted as a serious endorsment of mounting a bayonet on you're shotgun for any *real* purpose. I personally got a great deal on my 590 years ago. I looked at the bayonet lugs for years a said "One day I should buy a bayonet to put on there". When that day came, I bought the silliest one I could find, serrated tanto. I guess I'll refrain from posting it in the future. It does not seem to bring anyone pleasure but myself. :oops:
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Post by zentesukenVII on Sept 9, 2012 19:03:07 GMT
Guys I appreciate the replies and info, thanks very much.
SamH you made a lot of good points and I will take your advice. I will actually be going to gander mountain in waukesha to purchase my gun. The location in franklin just sold out. Really sucked, I was there the night before last to check out which one I wanted, then I went back last night and they were out of stock. I just hope the other store has it. I'm not sure exactly which variant it is since there are so many guns of this type but it was black synthetic with a bead sight, regular cylinder bore barrel (18 or 18 1/2 inch) and it held 6 shots in the mag, one in the chamber. As far as hunting goes with it I will probably just get a different gun for that. My girlfriends dad has 7 hunting shotguns to chose from for me at first, and I've heard installing a 2 shot stopper for the mag is very hard to do. Not to mention the barrel on the shotgun I have in mind cannot accept a choke. I just want to get the hang of how this baby patterns before I even hunt with it like you said. I will be doing tests at different distances to see how different shots spread and pattern. I also really can't wait to shoot up some pumpkins in the fall!
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Sam H
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Post by Sam H on Sept 9, 2012 19:21:56 GMT
If your barrel can't accept chokes then yes you'll have to get a different barrel for hunting. An open/cylinder choke will have your shot spread too far apart to do well against targets that are further from you than MAYBE 10-15 yards and even at those distances its iffy. Now about a plug for your magazine - its actually pretty easy. Now your magazine holds 6 right? Well what you do is you go buy a dowel (doesn't have to be anything thick or even hard wood, just so long as it fits inside your magazine). Measure off and cut a length that's about 4 cartridges long. Then take the cap off your magazine (twist off), stick the dowel inside and replace the cap. Voila, you now have a 3 shot shotgun. Getting the plug out is pretty easy too, just do it in reverse. Anyway that's what I would do but others might have a different idea. My method though should cost you maybe a few dollars and about 20 minutes max unless you're buying dowels in some fancy exotic wood.
As for getting the shotgun if you can't find it at the Gander Mountain in Waukesha there's also the Gander Mountain in Germantown. That one has the largest selection of firearms of ALL the Gander Mountains in the state. Basically if you can't find it at any other Gander Mountain you should be able to find it at the one in Germantown. There's also Dunhams Sports. They've got locations all over and they usually have a pretty good supply of firearms as well. Of course if you just can't find it anywhere and HAVE to have it right away you could drive up to Richfield and go pay a visit to Cabela's. They're bound to have it but you'll pay more for it too. Of course while you're up there they've got a great sale on last season's outerwear. A lot of Columbia stuff as well as their Cabela's brand stuff (which I prefer) is on sale for up to 60% off.
If you have any questions or if you just want to shoot the thing and don't want to have to wait to go "up north" let me know. I think you've got my number yet right? Text or call and we can go shooting.
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Post by zentesukenVII on Sept 10, 2012 2:29:42 GMT
Thanks for the info. I paid a visit to cabelas on the way down from winneconne a few weeks ago. It was pretty impressive. The same shotgun went for about 40$ more, but they have lifetime guarantees on all products so it probably is worth it. Tomorrow I am going to the Gander Mountain in Waukesha to buy my gun. Hopefully things go well, I have no felony's so I shouldn't have anything to worry about.
And sam, that is a kind offer. I do still have your number so I'll let you know when I'm available and maybe we can set something up.
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Post by zentesukenVII on Sept 11, 2012 1:52:00 GMT
Well I took the plunge, sorta. I put down 100$ layaway on a Remington 870 tactical home defense. It comes with the ghost ring sights pre-installed and an RIS on the top of the receiver. The barrel also accepts a choke and has a flash hider with teeth on it that apparently are for blowing hinges off doors. Pretty cool, can't wait to take it home! www.remington.com/products/firea ... tical.aspx
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Post by Artelmis on Sept 11, 2012 4:04:20 GMT
For hunting I use an old Browning A5 with a 29" barrel. It has a built in full-choke, and with the steel shot required on migratory birds, it gives me roughly a 12" pattern at 35 yards... meaning I have to be incredibly accurate with the thing. I sit about 75% at the local trap range, but last year my duck calling sucked so hard we didn't get any to come close.
That said: here's my advice. take it as you will.
1: a short barrel is louder than a long barrel... sure, you'll have earmuffs on at a range, but generally when hunting, you're ears open. Even using 2 3/4 inch shells, they make my ears ring after a shot or two. and that's with the 29" barrel... now imagine you and 1-2 other guys in the blind ALSO blasting away... Perhaps I just have sensitive ears, but I can't speak for anyone but myself.
2: modified choke is your friend. I'm stuck with a full choke on mine and it just holds too tight of a pattern. If you have an open choke, you're basically just spewing steel into the air and odds of dropping something are slim to none. One of my friends swears on a full choke for birding. another uses a turkey choke (even tighter than a full choke), and some use modified or mod/improved. If you get a barrel that has the option to screw in chokes, you can get one of each and learn how they work and make your judgement from that.
lastly: Practice, practice, practice. Go to a trap range if you have one (most trap ranges require barrels over 20 inches) and practice your heart out. learn to lead your shots and it'll give you a better idea for how to handle the gun than just testing your pattern on a sheet of paper.
Personal ramblings: since you're using a manual shotgun, you won't have any relief on the recoil like I do with the A5 (semi-auto). Target loads at a trap range will give you the impression that the gun doesn't kick... And then you get it in your head to go turkey hunting and have to use HV (high velocity) loads... I don't know about you, but I bruise easy... and my right shoulder looked a bit on the purple side for a bit... There's no shame in a stock-pad. Granted... shotguns feel like little tickles after you've shot .300 rifles that have synthetic stocks with no pads... good grief that hurt... but i'd do it again!
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Post by Striderfly on Sept 11, 2012 7:21:37 GMT
Hey I think this gun is cool looking on your wall with that wicked looking tanto. It made me laugh. Good for home defence? Probably not. Awesome looking wall hanger? Definately.
I think the idea that posting this will result get someone killed is absolutely rediculous! I didn't feel like you were endorsing any unsafe practice. Be ultra-safe with firearms, but don't suck the fun out of the forum.
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Post by ShooterMike on Sept 11, 2012 23:41:55 GMT
All I can say is...ditto. I'd like to see something silly like one of those long WWII Japanese bayonets with a tanto point. It'd be "samurai shotgun" then.
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