Kuya
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Post by Kuya on Aug 15, 2012 4:13:37 GMT
Despite not being all that "new" anymore, I'm posting this question here, because I'm inexperienced on this subject.
My Hung Shing T.S. Budo came with an "Emperor Node" on the handle. Why do people prize Emperor Nodes on the ray skin used for their katana handle wraps? From an artistic perspective, it messes with the uniformity and flow of the sword, unless there's an Emperoro Node in the middle of each "diamond," or one in the exact same spot on the other side, or one in the same location relative to the other side's menuki... something to keep things even and pleasant. People always like an even curve and straight (along the curve) edge. Having an "Emperor Node" on your shinogi-ji, a bump or dip along the shinogi line, or a nick, would be seen of as horrific. So why do people want big random pimples on their handles?
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Post by frankthebunny on Aug 15, 2012 5:08:32 GMT
it's representative of the quality of the samegawa. there is only one emperor's node per skin and generally, the larger it is the higher quality the skin is. there are many other factors that go into judging a quality skin but a large node is one of the main sought after features. most production swords come with samegawa panels that are made from the leftovers or sides of one skin so do not have a large node. most often the rest of the nodes are very small and of poor quality, dirty color/empty space in between/thin. the optimal way to dress a tsuka is to use a good skin and apply it in a full wrap where the same fully envelopes the wood core and results in the one large node (and typically 2 other smaller ones in a row) on only one side of the tsuka. the seam would either be down the center of the ura side or hidden along the edge. most people these days prefer a hidden seam. the benefit of a full wrap is to give extra strength to the wood core as well as to include the emperor's node. there are a couple of production swords that include this node but on panels instead of a full wrap because it is much more difficult to wrap it than to just cut a strip. lol, so far you don't like hamon and now don't like the emperor's node. I'd say I don't see you picking up a nihonto anytime soon
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Kuya
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Post by Kuya on Aug 15, 2012 6:36:45 GMT
Ah, thanks for the reference, Josh. Since you're a pro tsuka-er (I don't know the official name for a craftsman of your craft), would this node be acceptable as far as they go? I took two pictures with different lighting, they're not all that great, but it's what I can pull off on a quick whim to reply fast. If the forum resizes them so that you can't see the detail much, "view image" should work to up the resolution. I saved them at 1500.
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Post by frankthebunny on Aug 15, 2012 11:59:41 GMT
it's ok for the price range. it's on panels though not a full wrap, which is fine but just so you know (you can see the exposed wood on the sides and near the kashira). it's similar to the quality and size of the ones they used to have on the bamboo mat and lion dog.
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Post by chopper on Aug 15, 2012 13:25:23 GMT
Josh mentioned that they lower quality ray skin is used to keep the price of the sword down. There's noting wrong with it and if you're happy with it then thats fine. To me a tsuka done in good quality ray skin with large nodes is just pleasing to the eye. I guess it just depends on what you like. This is a pic of a fulll wrap I did on a wakizashi. I lucked out and got a good quality skin. The one I got recently, which was the same grade, was not as nearly as nice as this one. The pick is of the emperior node surrounded by other large nodes. There is also a line of nodes that extends horizontally from either side of the emperior node. That to me is also pleasing. I guess it all comes down to personal preference.
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Post by frankthebunny on Aug 15, 2012 19:12:29 GMT
hey Chopper, looks great. have you posted a thread yet?
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Post by chopper on Aug 15, 2012 20:50:19 GMT
Yeah, that was from a while back. I just finished a wrap last week on a hauwei kat. Got to do some adjustments on the tsuba and seppa and then I was going to post a thread on it.
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Kuya
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Post by Kuya on Aug 16, 2012 1:29:00 GMT
Yeah, I guess because I took the picture at a "straight down" angle, it didn't show how high the node was. I was too busy being a photographer and trying to keep the shadow as small as possible. I think my lighting captured how round and lustrous the nodes are, though. All the other pictures on this thread don't show as much light reflection and texture! I made the normal nodes look like beautiful pearls!
Just defending my photographic ability! :lol:
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Post by chopper on Aug 16, 2012 3:31:09 GMT
I wasn't referring to Kuya's tsuka at all and wasn't insinuating that his was poor quality. I was just talking about the nodes in general. Your Same' looks great!
It looks like I phrased something incorrectly. When I said "if you're happy with it," I was meaning "If a person is happy with it". That wasn't directed at Kuya. My mistake.
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Post by MOK on Aug 16, 2012 13:23:54 GMT
Actually, you can just left-click on an image resized by the forum software to see it in its actual size.
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Post by chopper on Aug 16, 2012 15:16:56 GMT
I understand and I'm sorry if I made him think otherwise. I think we're on the same page now. Somehow I missed the fact that is was one of your swords. We all trust you Dadaochen. I'm still wanting one of your swords.
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Post by stickem on Aug 16, 2012 16:46:14 GMT
Thanks for sharing, Ricky. I wasn't aware stingrays had nipples :lol:
Thought those were only found in mammals!
Ok, so now I've had my fill of samegawa porn for today. Thanks for making me lust after yet another sword; now the Budo is on the list...
I can say from experience with owning a different model of Ricky's swords, that my HS True Sharp tamahagane does not have samegawa with any emperor nodes. Instead, they are all pretty small nodes. But it wasn't advertised to have 'em, so I wasn't expecting 'em. So no worries... 'cept now I'm jealous of Kuya's :cry:
I can also say the tsuka-maki on my HS True Sharp is the only katana I've received where I didn't immediately have the thought, "What would it look like if it were wrapped better/differently?"
What Ricky says about the person who does his tsuka-maki is true, they are good. I'm no expert on these things, but IMO, the work of Ricky's tsuka-maki shi is better than what I've seen from other production swords I've received from other vendors (e.g., Hanwei, Ronin, Dynasty Forge, etc).
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Post by frankthebunny on Aug 16, 2012 22:01:31 GMT
I thought it was a fair comparison weighing the panels on your sword Ricky to a fine quality and higher end production sword. ok for the price was just saying I guess that it's no $10,000 nihonto tsuka, nothing more. I said there was exposed wood because I saw exposed wood, it wasn't a dig or anything. I would think that Ricky's tsukamaki-shi is indeed better than me considering he has 30 years to my few. I never claim to be the best or even up there with the more experienced, I just do as good of a job as I can while I'm still learning all the time. there are many types of acceptable same as discussed here - forum.sword-buyers-guide.com/viewtopic.php?f=18&t=12776also, those peaks/hooks on the nodes should be sanded or filed down because they could fray the ito during use over time. basically, the samegawa offered on Ricky's swords is obviously well above almost all of the other swords in the same price range and a lot that are more expensive. I just removed some pretty sad looking same strips off of a Kaneie sword that is certainly priced higher than Ricky's. when it comes down to it, nice samegawa is a bonus and not really necessary (especially panels) on production katana. I mean think about how much benefit a full wrap tsuka with fine samegawa would be if the core is cracked, the fittings are crap and the blade is not much more than a sharpened crow bar. I say this because sellers want to impress buyers with superficial items to make up for the general poor quality of the sword they are selling you. a turd dressed in an Armani suit is still just a turd. Ricky's current swords are focused on quality where it counts. so imo, it wouldn't matter if the samegawa was much lower grade or not even there at all. you're getting your moneys worth in the blade alone so consider everything else a big bonus.
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Post by frankthebunny on Aug 17, 2012 2:54:26 GMT
you're doing a great job and again, the list of details above and beyond other brands are many. honestly, if you keep upgrading the package I will be out of a job if the forge workers don't come and whack you for pushing them, you will be known in the future as the one who changed what's coming out of China. if they do, you will be known as the guy who got whacked for pushing too far and will be an example of what not to ask for from a forge.......let's hope it's the first thing, lol and don't make me come down there either! actually, it's a good thing for me that you're pointing out all the details that make the job difficult to do. I spend so many hours fine tuning the little things so the finished product is as good as it can be and most of them go unnoticed. shaping the lumpy and bumpy log shaped cores, filing down each large node of new samegawa so it's smooth and round, watching the corners for wood, lining up my knots (when possible), making sure the ito is flush with the fittings, and so on. I only even charge for all this when it's really excessive, lol. hours of work for free. it's actually more difficult to alter an existing typical tsuka than to make a new one from scratch but I do what I can to save my customers from paying more. my number one hated element of a typical core is the f*&%#$g sticky tape they use in China. it's like runny goo and is a real pain in the @ss to remove. why do I do all of this? because I'm not really a great business man when it comes to katana :oops: and I just can't let these things go undone. if I'm not happy with the results I figure my customers won't be either and I know that most of them don't have tons of money to spend on a budget sword. I see it as a learning experience for me mostly and I just love to do this.
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Kuya
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Post by Kuya on Aug 17, 2012 3:21:45 GMT
If you went full on aesthetics/wrap and super handle carving, you would probably have to charge in the $1K range. Here's a quick example using Cottontail Customs: $600 (after shipping) for the Budo. $75 for a new carved core that will be shaped properly for a full wrap. $125-170 for full samegawa wrap. $125 for the ito and wrapping. That's $925 alone, and we're not even going into what prices the saya maker in China would charge for special saya fit and paint (I like the gold scale look of the new RK-2 line). From my dry swings and paper slicing tests, and the insane videos of only moderate effort with one hand against soaked triple real tatami mats, cutting through bundles of bamboo, and static no-swing slicing through a small water bottle that didn't have the weight to hold itself down much.... the balance and cutting ability is out of this price range. If I had tons of money, I'd buy an extra just to send to Jakeonthekob... and I guess "Greg" too... to do a video with static and triple trick cuts all day, and this isn't even a Hira-Zukuri "cheater blade". I'll be honest, I'm really lucky that I'm buying from you while you're still a small company, because I'm sure that a bigger named manufacturer would charge $600 for the blade alone. But you're throwing in really smooth silk wrap, emperor nodes, and perfect no movement fit. Everyone already knows that I HATE hamons, and I LOVE properly carved and terminated bo-hi grooves, but I spent the most money I ever have on a sword on a blade that has a hamon and doesn't have a bo-hi. Shows how much the blade impressed me enough to make me bypass two of the most important parts of a katana to me. However, I'm still waiting on the RK-2 batch that comes with a black ito wrap. Hopefully all the QC we're doing now will make sure the forge fills all the gaps for that batch.
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Kuya
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Post by Kuya on Aug 17, 2012 3:38:22 GMT
Oh, and Josh. I notice the work you do. That's why I choose you for when I need handle work done. I'm also lucky to have found you before your name got really big, and you start charging what your work is really worth. If things go as they should (meaning that the hardworking and quality artisans get the recognition they deserve), your names will be as big as Sugita Yoshiaki, Paul Chen, Chris Zhou, etc. I'll be able to say, "Hey, don't touch that sword! That has a Ricky Chen blade and Josh Marlan handle and fittings! It's worth more than your life!"
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