Kuya
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Post by Kuya on Jul 28, 2012 11:32:11 GMT
I want a scimitar, but shopping for one is a bit more difficult than a katana. Katana shopping has more resources for information and a lot more reviews. When I checked Amazon and eBay... they are mostly in the sub-$100 range. So either they're of as bad or worse quality and/or fit and finish than your general $60-120 katana, or the demand for scimitars is so low that even good ones sell for less. I'm taking the side of caution and assuming they are the former.
So if anyone can let me know of any places to shop for a quality scimitar, please link or provide me some information to help me in my search?
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Post by Jussi Ekholm on Jul 28, 2012 11:54:16 GMT
I own CS Shamshir and that's pretty good quality blade. Quality is something that could be expected from Cold Steel and c.250$ price tag.
I remember reading that Windlass made blades for the CS shamshirs, check out the Windlass Persian Scimitar and you'll see the similarity. I just preferred the hilt and sharpness of CS over Windlass.
I think these 2 are among the very few good mid-priced (under 250$) production scimitars.
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Post by Vincent Dolan on Jul 28, 2012 12:01:01 GMT
Well, first of all, what do you consider a scimitar? Strictly speaking, "scimitar" is something of a catch-all for the various types of curved blade common to the Arabic world; there's the saif, shamshir, kilij, nimcha, pulwar, and talwar. As for who makes one, Cold Steel offers a Talwar and a Shamshir, the former of which is just their 1796 HC Saber rehilted (and not very well, from what I remember of Sword Fan's mini-review) while the latter is a rehilted Persian Scimitar from Windlass Steelcrafts. There is also this Kilij, but I'm hesitant to mention it since I know of no one who's bought it (at least, no one I can remember). Those are all that I know of production wise; you could probably find more options if you went custom, but that would significantly increase the cost. EDIT: Jussi ninja'd me on the CS and Windlass.
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Kuya
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Post by Kuya on Jul 28, 2012 12:28:44 GMT
Thank you for the information guys. I'm liking the price point of the Cold Steel / Windlass, but they don't have the "recurve" at far side of the blade that some do. I liked the one that Kult of Athena had from Hanwei ( link here), but they don't have any in stock anymore. I checked Hanwei's site, but they don't have it in stock either, so I'm guessing it's discontinued.
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Post by Vincent Dolan on Jul 28, 2012 12:41:56 GMT
From what I remember, the Hanwei Scimitar was strictly meant for belly dancing; in theory, it probably could have been used for cutting, but the extreme curvature and the almost completely circular grip would make doing so rather difficult. It's also possible that, being meant for belly dancing despite being made of carbon steel, it may not have had a proper hilt assembly, something that could result in a helicopter of death.
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Kuya
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Post by Kuya on Jul 28, 2012 12:57:35 GMT
Ah, gotcha. KK, guess I'll either have to settle for the CS/Windlass, or keep hoping there's a good quality one able to be used for cutting that has the recurve thingy down the blade.
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Post by Elheru Aran on Jul 28, 2012 13:03:49 GMT
The Cold Steel gets consistently decent reviews. I've handled it and it's quite light and fast. Good piece. My Windlass was curiously blade-heavy by comparison; I think I may have gotten a defective model. By 'recurve thingy', do you mean like a yataghan? en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yataghan
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Post by Vincent Dolan on Jul 28, 2012 13:04:39 GMT
I think Kuya's referring to a false edge, Jeff. In which case, you'll probably want to keep your eyes open for a kilij; or a dao, since they could easily be considered a Chinese scimitar (the Hanwei Practical Dao, for one, has a very thin cross-section in the last few inches that could be reprofiled to give it a false edge if so desired, though it could potentially mess with the temper).
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Kuya
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Post by Kuya on Jul 28, 2012 13:39:30 GMT
Yeah, wow, you're good at this! Many of the pictures of dao on Google's image search look like the type of Scimitar I like, just without the false-edge, recurve, or whatever it's called.
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Post by MOK on Jul 28, 2012 13:42:58 GMT
The wider, false-edged point section on Arabic swords is called a yelman. Mind you, on historical swords it's usually convex, sometimes almost straight, but hardly ever concave like on that Hanwei (which isn't very historical in any other particular, either).
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Post by Jussi Ekholm on Jul 28, 2012 17:04:15 GMT
Here are few offerings (in the style you might like) from one India-based manufacturer, I've never seen a sword that was made by them in person so I cannot really comment on them but judging from the pictures they seem to be nice. www.ancientarms.biz/servlet/Detail?no=1512www.ancientarms.biz/servlet/Detail?no=1469Click the detailed description to see more pictures. I think I have several more India-based makers (that sell at least mid-quality swords) in my bookmarks at home but unfortunately I'm at my parents so I can't link to those. Many skilled metalworkers living in India too, yet they will get very little publicity. Sometimes you can find antique swords of these "rarer" types at fairly good prices, yet I would not advice to cut with an antique but collecting wise they would be a nice addition to a collection. Try searching for kilij in general and see if that would be a sword type you'd like (there are always variations on any given type of sword). But based on your descriptions I think that would be the type you are after Here are few antiques for reference: www.swordsantiqueweapons.com/s442_full.html , www.oriental-arms.com/item.php?id=2218
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Post by MOK on Jul 28, 2012 18:08:17 GMT
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Kuya
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Post by Kuya on Jul 28, 2012 18:29:53 GMT
When I checked out all the kilij pictures, they tend to be TOO curved and a lot don't have the crest / extra dip / recurve / false edge thing. This sword is the kind of shape I want. It's not too thick, it's not too curved, and it has the neat funky thing at the end on the blade. Unfortunately, that sword is stainless steel and not made by a reputable brand. I guess I'm stuck with settling for the CS/Windlass. It doesn't have the exact look, but it's the only one that's decent enough to cut with at a price I can afford. Oh, that's what it's called? Thanks for the new vocabulary word. And aww... so the neat little quirk that I'm looking for isn't really an aspect of true scimitars/shamshirs?
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Post by MOK on Jul 28, 2012 19:59:45 GMT
No, not really - there might be some that are like that, but I don't recall ever seeing one. However, it is a common feature of European falchions and messers! That's actually where this pop culture conception of scimitars comes from, via Medieval and early Renaissance European artists who often equipped their portrayals of Islamic warriors with the curved swords they (the artists) were familiar with - i.e. European messers, falchions, storta etc. - to visually distinguish them from the cruciform sword wielding Christian soldiers (in reality, for most of that time both cultures used very similar equipment; this was a purely artistic convention). For example, here's the Albion "Soldat" grossemesser (that's German for "big knife"):
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Kuya
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Post by Kuya on Jul 28, 2012 20:49:15 GMT
Thanks a ton, MOK! I guess I need to start looking for "thin-ish" Messers, then? Anyone know which brands are the basic "go-to" brands for these style swords?
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Post by MOK on Jul 30, 2012 17:32:27 GMT
Well, the obvious choice is Albion... of course, they are at the very expensive end of the scale for production swords. You really do get what you pay for with them, though. There are a couple other companies that make messers, though I can't name them off the top of my head... googling for "messer" and "falchion" might turn up something.
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Lunaman
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Post by Lunaman on Jul 30, 2012 18:07:12 GMT
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Post by chrisperoni on Jul 30, 2012 20:41:38 GMT
I have the Military Dadao from Hanwei and it's a killer! The edge is a very steep 2ndary bevel though, but it has a lot of power = it'll take off body parts For backyard cutting I will have to fix the edge... or this from Windlass maybe?: www.museumreplicas.cm/p-220-falchion-sword.aspxor this from DSA? www.darksword-armory.com/product ... he-messer/ although these have no curve in the blade itself...
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Kuya
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Post by Kuya on Jul 31, 2012 1:13:53 GMT
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Post by chrisperoni on Jul 31, 2012 1:23:38 GMT
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