Kuya
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Post by Kuya on Jul 14, 2012 4:26:41 GMT
Posting this here, so I'm protected by the forum rules to not be laughed at and called mean names for asking.
"Medieval Type" swords have heavy pommels to make it so that their long blades can be wielded easily/comfortably with one hand. Would it be possible to use heavier wood for the tsuka of a katana to pull the balance back closer to the tsuba? Or maybe heavier fittings and ornaments? I know that stuff like that isn't as heavy as a pommel, but I can definitely feel a big difference that only four ounces makes between my Cheness SGC Katana and Dynasty Forge O-Katana.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jul 14, 2012 4:28:39 GMT
Heavier fittings are usually the way to do it. Like if your katana has copper or brass tsuba, fuchi and kashira, then replace them with iron... Of course, if you already have iron all around then there's not much more you can do.
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Lunaman
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Post by Lunaman on Jul 14, 2012 4:36:35 GMT
NOT WORTH DOING. THAT'S NOT WHAT POMMELS ARE FOR. MORE NUETRAL BALANCE DOES NOT MEAN BETTER, AND IF YOUR SWORD FEELS HEAVY IT'S THE FAULT OF THE BLADE. ADDING MORE WEIGHT WILL NOT MAKE IT LIGHTER. DEAD WEIGHT IS DEAD WEIGHT.
...Ahem. Sorry. Hulked out a bit there.
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Post by chuckinohio on Jul 14, 2012 5:51:19 GMT
Yes and no.
The blade is manufactured so that the weight of the desired pommel type will not throw the desired handling characteristics out of whack. You do not just throw different weight pommels at a sword until it balances right. You adjust the blade to fit the desired furniture during manufacture.
You can adjust the point of balance slightly with pommel weight, but the swords balance is primarily determined by both the profile and distal taper.
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Kuya
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Post by Kuya on Jul 14, 2012 6:28:22 GMT
Aww... I was hoping that adding a bunch of menuki would help too. Thanks for the information, guys.
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Taran
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Post by Taran on Jul 14, 2012 10:12:22 GMT
This is SBG. Why would you ever be worried about ridicule and abuse?
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Post by Derzis on Jul 15, 2012 2:34:41 GMT
As Lunaman cried out, you cant make a O-kat to feel like a normal sword if the geometry of the blade was not adjusted from the start to counterbalance the length. For the moment I keep my opinion that chinese forges are not capable yet to make a good training O-kat under 500. Heavy cutters, yes
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Post by ineffableone on Jul 15, 2012 3:01:47 GMT
For katana this is the usual method to change the POB for your sword. Some designs though are meant to be blade heavy. It is part of the design intention. Different swords have different functions. This is why no one sword will ever excel at everything, it takes different things to excel at different tasks.
If you really want to change your katana's POB, Ned's suggestion would be the normal traditional way to go.
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Kuya
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Post by Kuya on Jul 15, 2012 3:18:09 GMT
I don't plan on doing it to my O-Katana, I just mentioned that I could feel the four ounces that my DF-OK was lighter than my C-SGC. I'm planning on getting a new tsuka for my KC 29-II (groove), and I want it to feel like a 26-A (no groove). The 29-II is already 3.2 oz lighter than the 26-A, according to the stats listed in the reviews of the non-grooved 26-A, but when I had a 26-III (tiny single groove 3" on one side) for a short time (it was sent to me by mistake from KC), it the balance felt "lighter." Which makes sense since the KC site lists the balance as being 1.25" further in. Well I tied a 3 oz weight/ballast to the middle of the tsuka, and when I went to balance the sword on the triangle block again, it pulled the balance point back toward the tsuka a hair over an inch than what it was without the weight/ballast. This is why I'm interested in what might be done to the tsuka to modify the sword's balance. If the wood being used for the new tsuka core is lighter/heavier, or the ito wrap is lighter/heavier, or even the menuki and fittings is lighter/heavier, it will all add up to something that could substantially change the feel of the sword. Of course, if my understanding of balance is wrong, please correct me. But I read that the sword's POB is where on the blade it balances on a fulcrum. Yeah, unfortunately KC already uses iron fittings and whatnot.
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Post by Derzis on Jul 15, 2012 4:02:38 GMT
If you were not talking about your O-kat, changing some pieces of koshirae it's a solution for POB ... until one point.
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Post by ineffableone on Jul 15, 2012 5:12:27 GMT
Ahh, and I see and the fittings on the KC 29-II gives you a pretty much solid tsuba. You could try filling the holes on the tsuba with lead, but closer to the POB you put weight more you need to effect the balance. The best place to add weight to effect a difference would be the furthest point.
It seems you would have a bit of work to alter the POB for the KC 29-II. I am sure you could, however you might want to ask if it is really worth the effort for you to do so? The most effective place to add weight would be under the kashira. That means unwrapping it though to get it off then adding weight and rewrapping it. This seems like a lot of work to get a new POB. If you really love the blade, and really wish for a POB change, my suggestion would be to remove the kashira add some lead weights under there, which might mean shaving down the tsuka wood under the kashira. You can figure out aprox the right lead weight amount by taping some lead weights to the kashira while it is assembled. The reason I suggest lead, is it is heavy and it is soft. You can shape it a bit to fit under, and it will maximize the weight vs size.
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Kuya
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Post by Kuya on Jul 15, 2012 5:28:54 GMT
Thank you, ineffableone. I plan on getting a new tsuka by Frankthebunny. Maybe I'll pay an extra $20 to have it lengthened to 12" over the stock 11". Hopefully that'll pull back the weight of the kashira and add a bit more at the end too. I'll probably buy some extra menuki too, and have two on both sides of the tsuba.
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Post by Lobster Hunter on Jul 17, 2012 0:46:51 GMT
A slightly longer tsuka should pull the POV back a little back, provided the new tsuka core isn't significantly thinner or something. I'd recommend a heavier tsuba but as ineffableone mentioned, the KC tsuba is already pretty solid and heavy.
It's also possible that once you get more used to wielding your 29-II, you'll like the balance the way it is. When I first started buying swords I was also partial to a POV that was closer to the hand but as time went by, my preferences changed in favor of more blade presence.
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Kuya
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Post by Kuya on Jul 17, 2012 1:13:06 GMT
Well, I think Frankthebunny can make them the same thickness and size or however to order. I guess I should ask if the wood he uses is lighter or heaver than the one KC's forge uses.
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