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Post by distant_thunder_89 on May 30, 2012 0:38:39 GMT
Hello everyone, this is my first post on the forum so before asking a little bit of presentation. I come from Italy and like you am a sword-enthusiast (particularly fond of katana) thanks to countless cartoons/movies/shows I watched in my childhood. My dream is to own a REAL sword (I never bought one of those clanky wallhangers) and the SBG site helped me out much to decide which to buy. My final choice would be the Ronin Katana Dojo Pro Model #7 (which somewhere I don't remember it's numbered #13), the Shinshi. Given that I am a student and can't afford to spend money mindlessly (this could be the first and last sword I buy) I have some few more questions to ask to the experienced elders of the forum:
- I read that the Shinshi has a Shobu Zukuri. Apart from aesthetical differences the different geometry improves tip cutting and thrusting but weakens the blade, right? There should no problems in cutting soft targets like mats and bottles (the videoreview shows thrusting in an iron can, which I am not intentioned to do). - It is possible that in a sword like this would lack counter-polishing (not having a yokote)? This would make for a more real and less artificial blade, right? (I mean, the same thing that prompted you to reject the wire-brushed hamon) - When I read this forum for the first time many I acknowledged that many things were changed from the site (for example, Cheness Cutlery not being a recommended seller anymore), from many topics I got that Ronin Katana swords are good bets for people like me who must get value for money, is this situation changed?
Thanks for sharing your experience and excuse any mispelling I may have written.
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Post by Adrian Jordan on May 30, 2012 1:16:24 GMT
Howdy.
A Shobu-Zukuri blade will handle bottles and mats with ease. The main difference is that the Shobu will not have a yokote, and the tip is a bit more susceptible to tip damage with thrusting. As long as you are not thrusting into hard targets, you should be just fine.
A counter-polished kissaski is not disingenuous, as there are examples of Nihonto with cross-polished kissaski, actually. The geometry of a Shobu and a Shinogi-Zukuri is different, and thus a Shinogi having a cross-polished kissaski does not make it a Shobu with a fake kissaski/yokote. I myself believed this to be the case when I first started, but was thankfully corrected, hahaha.
Some do not like Cheness, but they do make a decent product. Very tough. I have one of their Kaze katanas and I love it. But for what they cost, however, Ronin does indeed make a superior quality product with much better fit and finish.
I hope this helps, and please feel free to ask as many questions as you can think of. Have fun!
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Post by johnwalter on May 30, 2012 1:24:58 GMT
Hello and welcome to the forum. The shobu is a style of katana that does not have a yokote.Instead the tip flows like a leaf tip basically.It aids in thrusting and cutting with the tip yes.The tip may be more delicate than that of a shingi zukuri,but the blade shouldnt be.My son has the Hanwei Raptor Shobu and its a beast of a cutter.And no this doesnt make it fake like a wirebrushed hamon,it is a real style of katana. I really dont have enough experience with Cheness or Ronin to advise for or against.But people like both. If you want tough,I can recommend from experience the Hanwei Raptor series if you can find them as they have recently been discontinued,or the Dynasty Forge Musha class,or the RK series as good tough first swords. Good luck with your first and cut safe. Edit,I see adrian was quicker, haha.
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Post by Adrian Jordan on May 30, 2012 1:37:43 GMT
Hahaha, yes I was. Now you just look like some kind of Johnny-come-lately!
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Post by johnwalter on May 30, 2012 2:21:52 GMT
HAHAHA
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Post by stickem on May 30, 2012 13:10:00 GMT
double post - dunno what happened - see below
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Post by stickem on May 30, 2012 13:10:58 GMT
DT ~ My question is of a different sort. Right now, Ronin has only a very limited # of styles available. It does indeed look like the #7 Shobu is available: www.roninkatana.com/dojopro7.htmlMy question is whether you decided on this style based on it being one of the few still available, or whether you like the style enough that you would still choose it if all the styles were available? Thing is, if you can wait a month, the new shipment will be in from the forge and you'll have your choice of any of these styles: www.roninkatana.com/I own a daishō of Dojo Pros #2. As many others will tell you, there is just something about the way it feels in your hand... like it is a real sword you could use for actual mayhem & destruction. You could go Lone Wolf & Cub on someone with a Dojo Pro. My other swords are from Hanweii and so on. They are good too for different reasons, but none of them really has the same feel as the Dojo Pro. So if you are looking for a reasonably priced sword that is as close to being the real thing as you can get for <$300, my vote is a Ronin Dojo Pro is the way to go
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Post by Jakeonthekob on May 30, 2012 17:23:54 GMT
Shobu-zukuri katana with traditional high shinogi and DH and heavy niku will be extremely tough and durable. However finding a sword like that is near impossible in the production sword market. So I think you made a good choice for a TH katana.
Usually shobu-zukuri katana will be thicker and generally heavier so it's a power cutter usually. Shinogi-zukuri katana can be light target cutters, medium cutters, or heavy cutters. It all depends on the niku, thickness, and width of those certain blades.
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Post by distant_thunder_89 on May 31, 2012 0:02:17 GMT
First of all, thanks for the quick and exhaustive answers, I really appreciated it. On the shobu zukuri weakening the blade and Ronin Katana being a good bet for a functional sword you all confirmed my thoughts, which make me feel more lighthearted. stickem: thanks for the waiting advice, I noticed already the guys at Ronin Katana were forging new blades and I obviously will wait to see if the designs change (I chose Model 7 for its beautiful and elegant tsuba rather than the point design in the first place). adrian.jordan: could you tell me what approximately is the slope of a typical shinogi zukuri (I mean, the angle it forms with the ji)? The thing that made me feel a counter-polished yokote as "artificial" (although I knew already by this forum that historical nihonto had the yokote made in this manner) is that in photos of such blades the grain of the steel seemed disturbingly different between the kissaki and the rest of the ji, like an abrupt change in direction. If that were caused by an actual angle (I think at least 10°-15°) I would not have any problem (the change would be obvious), but if it were caused by simply polishing the blade in another direction that's would appear artificial to me. Here a photo taken from the SBG review of the Ronin Katana models #2 and #5 to show better the effect: www.sword-buyers-guide.com/image ... 0075xf.jpg
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Post by Adrian Jordan on May 31, 2012 2:14:37 GMT
Hello again. I honestly couldn't tell you. My point was simply that the geometry of a Shobu and a Shinogi-Zukuri is different, and that a Shinogi will have different shape and geometry aspects beyond just a yokote, and thus a Shinogi-Zukuri with a cross-polished kissaki/yokote is not actually a Shobu-Zukuri. Here is a quote from Keith Larman's site, Summer Child Polishing. He is a well respected sword polisher/designer here in America. It doesn't go into specifics, merely a broad idea. Here also is a discussion from Bladesmith's Forum.com on the subject. It seems to get a little contentious at times, but is an interesting read. forums.dfoggknives.com/index.php?showtopic=6636I hope you are able to find some good information, and enjoy the read. Lastly, here is a thread with a link to a free e-book on Japanese swords. Perhaps there is some more specific information in it. forum.sword-buyers-guide.com/viewtopic.php?f=32&t=10896EDIT: All right, after some reading I've found that the angle of the yokote is not perpendicular to the ridgeline, but to an "imaginary line that joins the point and the machi on the back of the blade."
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