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Post by flgiordano on May 11, 2012 7:38:14 GMT
I have been looking at various Marine Corps Officers Mameluke swords in preparation for giving one as a gift upon commissioning of one of my grandchildren. I was looking at the Marlowe White Company website. They bought the tooling for the US military swords from Wilkinson when it shut down its sword manufacturing arm. Their products are top notch if a little pricey. When perusing the swords of the various branches (Army, Navy, Air Force, Marines, Coast Guard, etc.), I expected them to all be stainless steel. They were all stainless steel except for the US Army saber. It was made of high carbon steel hardened to 48-52 Rc and properly tempered. The blade is then engraved and nickel plated. Since all these swords are made to exact military specs, I assume that the Army specs must call for real sword steel instead of stainless. The Army saber is the only one made by Marlowe White that is actually sharpenable and usable as a real sword. Does anyone have any idea why the Army would do this while all other branches go the pure ceremonial route? Or is this just a peculiarity of the Marlowe White Company?
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Post by Dave Kelly on May 11, 2012 10:07:03 GMT
I'll be damned :shock:
I thought everything now was stainless. WKC is standard provider (probably gets their blades from Windlass) and it's all stainless. Never thought to look deeper. You'd think that is anyone was going to go "real steel" it'd be the Marines. :lol:
Thanks for the insight.
( Looked at the web page....are they still in business?? Page looks dead. :cry: )
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Post by chopper on May 11, 2012 13:38:33 GMT
I don't know if this is what you would be looking for but Cold Steel makes a carbon steel USMC officers saber. They claim that "it's a faithful to detail to government specifications!" 1055 carbon steel. www.coldsteel.com/usmc-officers-saber.html |
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Post by flgiordano on May 12, 2012 6:14:23 GMT
Chopper,
thanks for the reference. I am aware of the Cold Steel functional US military swords. However, to be used as a uniform item, the sword manufacturer must have a certification certificate from the appropriate military procurement department. Then the spine of the sword will have the certificate number engraved on each sword. This certifies that the sword is made exactly to the very detailed specifications issued by each part of the military (Army, Navy, Air Force, Marines, etc.) for their ceremonial swords. I haven't read all the rather complicated specs, so they may not specify a particular steel. Maybe they just specify blade dimensions and such. I do know that they want the blades to remain nice and shiny with minimal upkeep. that is why so many of the makers choose stainless steel. It seems the Marlowe White approach to shiny with minimal upkeep for its Army saber only is to nickel plate the carbon steel blade. This works great as a protectant. Many firearms were plated in electroless nickel to prevent rusting. Marlowe White's nickel plating isn't just a way to save a few cents versus stainless. They heat harden and temper the blades to true usability, and this has got to be a lot more expensive than simply using stainless. What really puzzles me is why go to all the trouble and expense of a real functional blade when absolutely everything else is stainless steel.
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Sean (Shadowhowler)
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Post by Sean (Shadowhowler) on May 12, 2012 6:26:37 GMT
My wife is a Chief in the USN. They only recently returned the Naval Chief's Cutlass to the Dress uniform... and I plan to get her one... ...then take the blade out of it and have one of our custom makers make a new, functional blade to replace it. The Goal is to have a cutlass that, to outward appearance, is exactly like everyone else... except hers will not be a stainless steel SLO.  |
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Post by Dave Kelly on May 12, 2012 11:27:34 GMT
As lovely as I think of that being, I'd run it past the provost first, because I'm not sure that's even legal anymore in the military.
100 years ago when I took command of my first company at Fort Hood I nonchalantly mounted my two Patton Sabers crossed behind my desk. Still remember the first non-judicial punishment that approached my desk; kid froze with his eyes locked on those sabers :lol: . A barracks theft sometime later brought the MPs in one nite. MP sergeant was in my office and said to me, " breaks my heart to have to say this sir, but ya can't have those sabers up there unless they are bolted to the wall and you can't do that to those beautiful swords." ( They were more concerned about having a drunken orderly rampaging thru the billets with a saber than they were with the marshall display of arms. I put the word out that if anymore touched those swords without my supervised permission there were two of them and if they didn't want to sport a scar on their sorry faces for the rest of their lives they'd best mind their manners. Seemed to take me at my word on the subject. Swords dutifully came down after six months. )
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Post by flgiordano on May 13, 2012 0:36:25 GMT
Dave,
I checked the Marlowe White site and it is still current and operating. Most of their swords are from WKC in Germany. I do not know whether the Army saber is from there however. Maybe I misread the site info and it was WKC who bought the Wilkinson tooling. Regardless, I am still puzzling over the mystery of a fully certified "real steel" US Military sword. I retired in 1986 and all the swords were stainless at that time.
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Post by Spathologist on Jun 7, 2012 13:35:33 GMT
Marlowe White is the authorized distributor for WKC military swords in the US.
While their M1902 Army Officer Saber is probably the best currently available, I bought several recently to give as farewell gifts and they are still just male costume jewelry.
The correct specification for the M1902/M1907 is a nickel-plated, carbon steel blade. Other services have changed their specifications to have stainless as an acceptable alternate, but the Army has not. I am of the firm opinion that this is through apathy rather than any desire to maintain a fighting weapon.
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