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Post by Unit731 on Apr 27, 2012 4:26:05 GMT
I am putting together a kit of sorts. I want a type of armor that can leave room for mobility and protect vital areas. I was thinking maybe chain mail, vambraces, greaves, a helmet and a shield but am not very knowledgeable when it comes to armor and shields.
What type of shield is best suited for what task? What types of light armor exist and how good are they?
I should mention that I want this kit for dueling purposes, not military.
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Post by Svadilfari on Apr 28, 2012 7:06:21 GMT
The first questions should be..do you want authenticity - correct for period, and WHAT period are you aiming for ? Or are you just going for fantasy /RenFaire stuff ?
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Post by 14thforsaken on Apr 28, 2012 7:30:41 GMT
Another factor is a weight/maneuverability trade off. Currently my kit is fairly period accurate for the 1300s is for the most part SCA legal if that's important to you and medium weight. My kit consists of: Long Sleeve Arming Coat, Chain Hauberk (European flat ring alternating wedge riveted and solid rings), Infantry Gambeson, Leather Greaves and sabotes, leather gorget, leather pauldron, leather vambreaces, leather demi gauntlets, arming cap, and Corinth Barabute helm. All told with weapons and such it weighs some where around 70 pounds. If I wear my full kit which would include a large gothic shield ( 35" high x 20" wide x 3/4" thick) padded upper leg armor with steel knees, padded greaves and chain chauses the weight goes up over 100 pounds or so. If you know how to strap your armor and such where the weight is distributed evenly, its not bad. My shield is fairly heavy, 15 lbs or so, but I can cover about 2/5 of body with it easy. It also overbuilt to use to shield rush and shield bash. It has a metal rim as well so it would hold up fairly well. Here is a picture for reference: If you are not used to carrying around that much weight, it can be draining especially if its hot. You might want to work your way up to it.
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Post by Unit731 on Apr 30, 2012 7:53:51 GMT
Svadilfari: I am just looking for something that functions. Doesn't have to be correct to any period.
14thforsaken: How does Leather hold up to impact? Nice kit. It is really cool, I like it. How much would it cost for me to get a similar kit?
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Taran
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Post by Taran on May 3, 2012 5:36:03 GMT
Ah, but functions for what? Hitting it with rattan for sca purposes? Looking good for renne faires? Dagor hir (sp)? Steel sparring?
We really do need to know the intended purpose before we can make a good recommendation.
That said, a reliable choise for almost anything is steel armour made for the SCA. But it tends to cost more.
Also, how much work are you willing and able to put into it? That has a significant impact on what is available to you and at what cost. Just as much as how much money you can drop on it at one go affects what is available and how soon.
Price, quality/looks, fast delivery. Pick two.
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jhart06
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Post by jhart06 on May 3, 2012 5:46:45 GMT
Much as I disagree with Taran on the subject(s) of armor, his last line really hits the nail on the head. And we really do need to know what the purpose is. For instance, I needed a dressy shield for 'court' gear when at Faire as a bannerman, so it's MDF table top I covered in leather and studs, but I wouldn't dream of sparring with steel with it, although it might hold to SCA rattan. Whereas my fighting shield was a big ugly beast of a slab of 3/4" oak plywood. It looked horrible, but I wouldn't be surprised if it held up to everything but a bullet.
Leather and mail are usually my advice to beginners, it's usually cheap(er) to buy, easy(ish) to make on your own, and a lot of it can be swapped out for metal pieces later on. Almost any armor kit for fighting will have mail on it, period and culture pending of course.
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Post by 14thforsaken on May 3, 2012 6:32:20 GMT
Mine holds up fairly well to impacts. I mainly count on layers to diffuse/absorb the force of the blow. Good leather is fairly slash resistant but not stab resistant. Mine has been put together over time and probably has about $1750 + in it. That does not count the things like shields that I make myself or my time/labor costs modifying things to fit/function better. I would recommend building your kit up over time and spreading the cost out.
Its hard to give any specific advice without knowing exactly what you want to use the armor for. What I would recommend for Ren fairs is one thing, for combat quite another. In general I go for function over appearance. I can always paint it, detail it, etc to look better. Trying to make something designed purely for looks functional is a lot harder if its even possible at all.
I have my differences in opinion regarding SCA approved armor. Some of it I think is junk that wouldn't hold up against anyone that knows what they are doing, others are so protective it seems like overkill to me. Its a matter of experience and opinion. My main gripe is that they don't take into account whether or not the person knows how to use their armor. If you know how to use it to deflect/absorb blows, what angles to let things hit/slide on your armor, how to use a shield properly, know your footwork, then you can use less restrictive armor (at least in my personal experience....that may not match other peoples). On the other hand, if you have no clue how to wear or use it, you can be in full plate and still get into a world of trouble.
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Post by Unit731 on May 3, 2012 8:08:25 GMT
I wanted armor that could function in a real sword fight. Something light, but protecting. I am not sure to what degrees though. What is preferred? I want as good a balance of comfort and protection as possible.
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Greg
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Post by Greg on May 3, 2012 12:10:36 GMT
Go for straight chain with a thick metal cuirass to cover your torso.
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Taran
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Post by Taran on May 3, 2012 16:45:06 GMT
I'd add vambraces and (I can't think of the actual term right now) shin guards in steel. But, yeah, I have to agree with Greg. That or a good set of scale.
That's why there are so MANY styles and types of armour.
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jhart06
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Post by jhart06 on May 3, 2012 16:56:32 GMT
Scale is really poor armor, although it looks nice. Far too easy to be circumvented by a swordsman who knows what he is about. I'd say a good suit of chain, a breastplate, forearm coverings of some type/form, and greaves would be a great start to a medium kit, and if you're looking to add i'd go for spaulders and obviously, a helmet.
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Taran
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Post by Taran on May 3, 2012 17:01:52 GMT
Only by a thrust moving up, toward the head. Very difficult to accomplish with a sword, spear or other main weapon even under the best of conditions. Very susceptible to the dagger in the bak, though. It's truly a poor-man's plate. Does not face llamellar's risk of losing large chunks of the armour because the bindings are cut or the downward moving piercing strike of a missile weapon or axe or pick (or secondary striking point of a polearm).
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Post by Unit731 on May 3, 2012 18:09:35 GMT
Would it be a bad idea to make my own Brigandine? What if I also made a chainmail shirt to wear under it, but after linking the chainmail, I sewed each individual link to a canvas backing then have that sewed to a top leather layer?
Also I should specify that the armor should function in... Well being armor. If it can resist sword slashes and impact, it should do.
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jhart06
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Post by jhart06 on May 3, 2012 20:29:28 GMT
Very easy for me to come in with a side cut/chop and just flick the blade or turn a thrust just so. It's by no means crap, but i'd say chain over it.
Brigadine and chain is historical, relatively easy and/or cheap. I'm not sure why/what you mean by sewing the canvas to the links then to leather. Typically you just wear a padded gambeson, sometimes I think leather was in their too. My mind's a bit fuzzy, so Taran or 14th will need to correct or finish the info, but I don't think there's any need to sew anything with chain.
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Post by Elheru Aran on May 3, 2012 20:31:04 GMT
Chainmail under brigandine is redundant extra weight. It's best used to cover flexible areas such as arms, head and neck, and legs that the brigandine won't cover. You would be best off using a separate chainmail coif, then a gambeson with chainmail sleeves sewn on, and chausses underneath the brigandine. The brigandine is perfectly fine armour on its own; putting chainmail under it would just make it even less flexible and you'd be wearing a lot of extra weight. Face it-- if you're going up against something that can crack the brigandine's protection, a layer of mail underneath isn't going to make a huge difference...
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Post by 14thforsaken on May 4, 2012 1:04:17 GMT
I wouldn't wear brigandine over chain. You're not really gaining much protection for the weight. I would either go with a leather breast and back plate, an infantry gambeson or both. Layers help, they diffuse blows and absorb impact. I wouldn't want to take a solid hit with a blunt weapon like a hammer while wearing brigandine, it will drive the plates it hits into you and bruise you up pretty bad.
For chainmail, you just need to wear it over a gambeson or arming coat. It helps provide padding and helps keep the mail links from getting driven into you from a blow.
The best advice I can give is to find a way to try on different types of armor and find out which ones you are comfortable in, can handle the weight and can move in. What works for me might turn you into a turtle or mine might not be heavy enough for you; it depends on the user and their familiarity with the armor.
Also, what type of combat would you be planning to do. That plays a huge role in what to use. The SCA has their own requirements and several of the forms and tricks I know are strictly prohibited there. Other groups have their own rules.
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Post by Unit731 on May 5, 2012 0:57:36 GMT
How well would an armor made of linked washers riveted between two pieces of leather work? So far, it seems like the only type of armor that I can make with my limited tools. I was thinking of tying all the washers together with sinew first then place it between two layers of leather and place a rivet in the eye of each washer.
I will post pictures of the results when it is finished.
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Post by Unit731 on May 5, 2012 4:56:25 GMT
Actually, what would the best way to make armor from washers? I imagine one can sew them side by side unto leather, sew and extra layer of washers on top, to cover the gaps then finish with another leather layer. Would this work? I already bought the materials.
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Razor
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Post by Razor on May 5, 2012 5:03:09 GMT
That is how this guy makes his armor. www.thatguysproducts.com/gorgets.htmlAlso a good gambeson, helmet, and a shield is a good light armor kit. Plus you can had more armor to it if and when you like. Believe it or not but fabric can turn a cut better than leather can. leather can easily be cut but it can help with blunt trauma.
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Post by Unit731 on May 5, 2012 5:23:45 GMT
Where is a good source for shields? Also, what defines a good shield?
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